[jcromartie]

Smalltalk.

Yes, really. I think the potential for a really sexy open source Smalltalk is there with Pharo; it just needs a lot of work. But building web apps in Seaside has really convinced me of the productivity you can gain by tossing out certain ideas and embracing a very focused and principled environment like Smalltalk (focused in the sense that it's the only place I've seen OOP taken seriously; i.e. it's not "OOP, but...").

I'm a big big fan of functional languages, especially Clojure, but the fact is that UIs are stateful and OO design really works there, and users need UIs.

[jhancock]

I've just been writing a small app in pharo the last few days. I haven't used Smalltalk in 15 years and its coming back very quickly. Pharo is nice but it still needs polish to get to the Smalltalk I had in 1994.

For this new app, I am using Iliad framework http://www.iliadproject.org/ instead of Seaside. I started out playing with Seaside but the code base is so large I felt I couldn't understand the internals of the framework without a lot of time invested. The trade off is that iliad has almost no docs and you have to read the source.

[jcromartie]

Neat. So, Iliad is like "Seaside Lite" or something?