[treis]

>Maybe because I'm outside the unicorn bubble I can't see the magic, but I find something very warped about a business strategy that combines stratospheric valuation, intentional regulatory non-compliance, perpetual capital injections, service misrepresentation, and unprofessional corporate behavior... and results in massive financial losses year after year. >When I try to balance the elements, it frankly looks like an enormous grift. Some key early investors have probably made out really well, but at what cost to others involved?

I think you're way too pessimistic here:

(1) A whole industry of rent seekers (medallion owners) was mostly run off

(2) The taxi experience in cities other than NYC, Chicago, and SF got a million times better. Before Uber in a city like Nashville you call for a taxi and maybe one shows up at some point. Since Uber you can reliably get a ride whenever you want. And that's not even talking about discrimination.

(3) Uber caused a dramatic decline in drunk driving. Likely because of (2)

(4) It allowed people to make some money with a flexibility that traditional jobs don't offer

For me, Uber/Lyft has definitely had the biggest positive impact on my life out of any tech company in the last decade. The only close competitor would be Android/iPhone. I don't know if Uber is worth the ~60 billion that they were last valued at, but they definitely fill a legitimate role.

[therein]

> The taxi experience in cities other than NYC, Chicago, and SF got a million times better. Before Uber in a city like Nashville you call for a taxi and maybe one shows up at some point. Since Uber you can reliably get a ride whenever you want. And that's not even talking about discrimination.

That is a good point I hadn't considered until now.

I remember back in my college days in Champaign, IL right before Uber's debut, I would have to call three separate cab companies a day ahead of time and then the day of to get a ride to the airport, and only one would maybe show up.

I ended up befriending an Ethiopian cab driver that was really kind and responsible and only then this challenge came to an end.

[steve_musk]

As a recent UIUC grad, it takes a few minutes to get an Uber there now.

[therein]

Glad to hear a confirmation that what GP is talking about has had that positive impact as it sounds like Uber solved a genuine problem that existed there. :)

[da02]

What do you mean by, "and only then this challenge came to an end."? You simply stopped calling him?

[aplummer]

They mean: only after befriending the cab driver did the challenge of getting to the airport become easy.

[therein]

Exactly.

[funkaster]

> The taxi experience in cities other than NYC, Chicago, and SF got a million times better.

It wouldn't be fair to NYC and Chicago to compare them to SF. In my mind, the completely horrible broken experience of the SF taxi system was what created Uber & friends. I've been living in SF pre-Uber and having moved from a big city, the taxi system just drove me nuts, I could not understand why it was that fucked up. If it were as good as it is/was in NYC, prob we would've never seen Uber.

[starik36]

The part I really disliked about the NYC cabs is that you never knew how much it going to cost you. And similarly the driver never knew where they would have to go. With Uber, both parties have this information ahead of time.

Huge improvement.

[checkyoursudo]

I went to NYC for the first time about 20 years ago. I was looking for a cab from JFK to midtown. A limo driver said he'd take me for $30 (more or less -- I don't exactly remember). I had no idea really if that was a good price, but I remember thinking, "at least I know what the price will be," and I took his offer.

[jjeaff]

I was under the impression that Uber does not reveal the destination of the customer until they have picked them up. Is that not correct?

[beisner]

For trips over a certain length (maybe 45min) they get more information about that kind of length

[chimeracoder]

> The part I really disliked about the NYC cabs is that you never knew how much it going to cost you.

For black cab service, yes, you did. For medallion (yellow) cabs, it's always metered (except for the airport flat rate).

[brianwawok]

How much did you take Chicago cabs? It wasn’t great. Broken seat belts. Cabby talking on speakphone entire trip. Skip stop lights. A few extra turns to add some distance.

[dnautics]

The worst part of the medallion story was how the industry tricked the driver's into investing back into the medallion scheme, thereby becoming small time exploiters the next generation of drivers (n=2) and in any case winding up with often negative assets when the inflated price cratered. Meanwhile the owners of say ticker TAXI and their trust fund kids are probably doing just fine

[dehrmann]

I lay most of the blame for this with the NYC TLC for restricting medallions in the first place. The real way to reduce congestion is use fees, and it puts a natural cap on the number of taxis. Ideally, the fees are used on improvements to mass transit.

[Gibbon1]

My take away from Uber and Lift was restricting the number of cabs was a mistake. Would have been better off all around to actually just partially subsidize them. And make buses/subways free.

I get a lot of flack for that position, my response is we heavily subsidize private cars.

[dnautics]

buses and subways don't have to be free to be awesome. In fact I suspect subsidization and political control of them is part of the problem. One of the world's best public transport systems, singapore, is at least partially privatized (it once was fully privatized, and arguably system quality is going down) - and it has the lowest fares I've been on.

[pmart123]

I’d agree with Uber making a big positive impact, but without the iPhone, there is no Uber. I’m not sure many remember the challenges to ordering a taxi/booking a ride pre-Uber. The problem though is it is very much like the airline industry pre 2014. It is a challenging business model with a lot a capital and resources required to make it work. Ironically, Travis probably could have sold Uber Eats to Amazon now and the self driving car unit to GM! But, a pre-ipo company probably doesn’t have a great initial business model when they feel that it is necessary to pivot from it.

[1stcity3rdcoast]

I used to call Uber in the early 2010-2012 days on my Blackberry by texting my current location. Worked great even without an app.

[SilasX]

Yep! You can see the option in this cache of the site from January 2011:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110109084838/http://www.uber.c...

[pmart123]

Interesting. I didn't know that. I wonder if there was any 00's era startup that tried to create a taxi hailing service prior to the app store developing? My gut says the iphone/app alongside location data was critical for widescale adoption.

[MrStonedOne]

>but without the iPhone, there is no Uber.

An Uber company that still took calls but actually accepted a cross street in downtown seattle would still be a million times better the yellow cab's "Sorry, but we can only dispatch to a full street address"

[pault]

I think about this all the time. I spent 2008-2016 in several countries outside of the US. Before I left it was incredibly difficult to be a socially active and employed adult without a car unless you lived in a major metropolitan area with a good public transit system. Taxis were around but totally unaffordable for more than a few trips on the weekend while drinking.

When I moved back my drivers license had expired and since I live in a different state now I will have to take the driving test all over again. I've been here for almost three years now and I never bothered buying a car because I can get anywhere in town for less than $15 within a few minutes of requesting a ride. My monthly rideshare costs are about $450, which is comparable to the cost of owning a car. There are some inconveniences but it has totally changed how I get around and where I choose to live.

[kinkrtyavimoodh]

I agree. This is even more true in countries other than the US, so ironically, places far away from the unicorn bubble.

I travel a lot internationally, and in so many countries I have been able to just get out of the airport, open my app, and hop on a ride—it's fascinating and amazing what a revolution it has been in barely 5 or so years.

[astazangasta]

Just like everything with Uber this is hooey. (3) does not appear to be true. https://www.thegeneralautoquotes.com/resources/uber-affectin... (2) may be true but only because Uber is subsidizing its expansion with a mountain of capital. It can't actually sustain the expanded driver pool, which also makes driving unliveable for individual drivers.

[treis]

From your cite:

>Based on our main findings, along with the above summary of the general habits of people who use rideshare services, the data seems to suggest (emphasis on “seem”) that many rideshare customers are opting to hail a ride home after an evening at the bar or club, rather than risk driving intoxicated.

[astazangasta]

This is what people have historically done when they are drunk, it is not a new behavior invented by Uber.

[treis]

It's not what people typically did because taxis were not generally available in most US cities. You couldn't rely on a taxi coming to pick you up at your home nor rely on one being there when you wanted to leave.

[astazangasta]

Nevertheless there are other options, such as calling a friend, taking the bus, walking, etc. It's not clear that Uber resulted in people who would otherwise have been drunk drivers instead calling a cab. People who drunk drive presumably don't arrive at that choice because of a minor inconvenience.

[mtnGoat]

Any source for #3? I'd be curious you read these statistics.