[lixtra]

Magic Wormhole looks neat and I can imagine using it. But apparently it requires:

- both parties to be online at the same time

- have access to a secured channel to transfer the secret

- Transfer a new autogenerated secret for each file transfer.

PGP lets you:

- verify the key once

- re-use the key

- the key be submitted through a public channel

- the verification be done in a public (though tamper proof) channel or by web of trust

- the file be stored in transit, no need for online

But obviously, if the complaint is that pgp is too complex, then each single tool to replace some functionality doesn’t cover the whole spectrum.

[throwaway415415]

This. If you share a temporary password through another secure channel, you can probably just share a symmetric key and then you don't need PAKE anymore. In some cases though, you might want to send yourself something from one device to the other, or you are talking to someone who's not really technical on the phone.

About being online at the same time, I was under the impression that this wasn't a requirememt.

[lotharrr]

(author of magic-wormhole here)

To transfer a file, both parties do need to be online at the same time. The server (which I run) does not store the file's data: it stores tiny key-exchange messages until both sides manage to make a direct connection, but then the encrypted file data is sent from sender to recipient without being stored in the middle. So it doesn't replace email or an FTP server or some other asynchronous file-transfer service.

You're absolutely right that if you already have a secure channel, you can send a full-strength symmetric key that way (e.g. send a PGP key, or one of the alternatives in gtank's post). But PAKE enables using a low-bandwidth secure channel. I can easily read a magic-wormhole code like "4-purple-sausages" to someone over the phone or to the person sitting next to me, but I'd be hard pressed to dictate an entire 256-bit secret key correctly.

[rakoo]

Also, if you're sending an encryption key you have to make sure it's a good key, ie generate it from a reliable source of random and with a sufficient length, whereas magic wormhole's password is automatically generated for you.

[lixtra]

PAKE takes care of that. Watch the parents nice talk: https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c

[rakoo]

Yes, that's what I'm saying: GP's point is that if you have a secure channel you might as well send the encryption key, but in order to do that you have to be careful about generating it correctly, whereas PAKE give you the possibility to exchange something far simpler.

[kingofhdds]

Well, it's nice when phone is considered secure channel. It's not so for many serious applications, however. PGP invented to deal with situations when you communication channels are untrusted. See, no one says your software is bad, but when it is marketed as a better alternative to PGP it's not true, and worse, it's absolutely irresponsible thing to do.

[lixtra]

According to parents nice talk[1] you can add a verify switch that lets you compare the signature of the actual key. So a public authenticated channel is enough.

[1] https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c

[kingofhdds]

I'm not sure we are on the same page here. Having control over a channel you use to pass your code, I can receive your secret file, I just need to be quicker than a legitimate recipient. How this '--verify' flag will help you then?

[lixtra]

The assumption is that Alice recognizes the voice of Bob. If Eve manages to evasdrop on the call and sits in the middle or beats Bob to connect to the wormhole server then Alice will still see that the fingerprint that Bob dictates over the phone does not match the fingerprint of the key that her computer proposes to use for the file transfer. Alice will therefore abort the transmission.

With deep learning the voice may be not good enough nowadays. Still, you only need an authenticated - possibly public - channel, similar to pgp key exchange, where you can read the fingerprint over the phone.

[kingofhdds]

Also magic-wormhole relies on a hardcoded intermediary servers for which author gives no guarantees.

[tptacek]

You can simply run your own. The protocol doesn't rely on the servers for security.

[kingofhdds]

Running my own server for occasional file transfer is when it becomes even smarter alternative to PGP, isn't it?

[helper]

Its not hardcoded, its just the default server. You can specify your own via a cli flag.

[kingofhdds]

Flag won't make it better. If user needs to run own server, it kills the only advantage in comparison with PGP - relative simplicity.

[tptacek]

No, angry commenter, that is not the only advantage Magic Wormhole has over PGP.

[kingofhdds]

Please, don't try to interpret my mood, it can quickly make it childish.

Feel free to argue over other advantages you believe it has.