[chasd00]

also, DBAs hate developers. Developers want to make changes to the database to support their classes such as "i need to add a column" and the DBA response is "no." or, even worse, "fill out this ticket and it will get prioritized in the next scrum" meanwhile the developer is at a standstill.

I interviewed at southwest airlines years ago and i don't remember how it came up but we were talking about bottlenecks or something and i brought up the fact that having to go to a DBA to get a column added to a table, no matter how trivial, is a great source of delay. The whole room just nodded and looked at the floor, it was obviously painful for them.

NoSQL took the DBA out of the loop, now the developers were in full control of what was persisted and what wasn't. If they needed a new field they just made it so. On the flip side, DBAs got really freaked out and cried to whoever would listen.

In my experience you either have a DBA report to Developers or Developers report to a DBA. Never give them equal footing (even implied) because they'll just fight.

[matwood]

I think you need to also look at it from the DBAs stand point. If they did whatever the developers want and the system goes down or more likely other parts become slow, it is the DBA who gets the call.

In a large company like SW, the developer requesting some change for their app may have no idea how else the db is being used. What if their requested changes took down the db and prevented reservations from working?

My examples are extreme, but I have seen similar things in my years as both a developer and a DBA at times.

[chasd00]

Took me a while to get back here but I do understand your point and it's totally valid. That door swings both ways.

That's why it's hard for the two camps to work side by side.

NoSql gave power to the devs at the expense of the experience and wisdom of the database folks. I bet many many applications and systems were completely screwed datawise more than once because of devs and NoSql.

[matwood]

To be clear, I've known DBAs who act exactly like you described in your original comment. Very annoying.

The best I've seen it work is to have a DBA on the team building the application.