[albeec13]

With the exception of safety features (think blind spot monitoring, backup cameras, lane keep assist, parking sensors) and mobile connectivity features like bluetooth, frankly I'm getting tired of all the crap they're throwing into vehicles these days for many of the reasons you mention.

It seems every manufacturer or parent brand has their own infotainment system, NAV, etc. and you pay the price for it when you buy the car. And god forbid you want the upgraded safety features or leather seats, but don't want any of the other bells and whistles, because you can't have it without tacking on $4000 for the "technology" package.

My ideal car these days is one with the safety bells and whistles, limited luxury features (automatic and heated/cooled seats, climate control), but without any complicated infotainment beyond bluetooth/Android auto/Apple Car Play connectivity. There's no reason to have redundant technology built into cars by companies that aren't as good at it when we have perfectly capable, and generally more up-to-date mobile devices with us at all times.

Is anyone making reasonably well-appointed vehicles without throwing everything and the kitchen sink in there?

[SlowRobotAhead]

>Is anyone making reasonably well-appointed vehicles without throwing everything and the kitchen sink in there?

No. Honda, Toyota, Fiat, GM, everyone seems to have the same problem. For what it's worth, FiatChrysler and GM have at least had the sense to set higher requirements for vendor/suppliers than Toyota.

Specicially, after Toyota's "unintended acceleration" issues (mostly floor mats, some APPS/Pedal issues) it was discovered that their ECU taking accelerator pedal position (I'm not sure if it was the PCM/ECM specifically) had over 12,000 GLOBAL VARIABLES! Let that sink in for second.

After a code audit by iirc UPenn the bug was not found, but that wasn't a glowing review, it was ad admission it was impossible to prove/disprove.

Edit: I take that back. There are Chinese brands I drove in Malaysia and export-only Nissans that while being wholly illegal in the US or Europe are still barebones vehicles.

[Glawen]

I've read the audit and basically it was done by a guy with no clue about the automotive world. He compared the code with the one made at nas. In the end they indeed did not find the root cause, but they had to say something as they are the "experts". So they pointed at "bad practices" like global variables.

What if i tell you that a pretty big chunk of the cars on the road are running software which are using global variable as means to exchange data between modules ? Well, that's how it is done and it isn't less safe. The last SW i worked with had 20000 global variables and 60000 parameters that the calibration guys could fiddle with.

Serious suppliers are applying safety standard and methodology and are not rushing the FMEA. Countless times my customer cursed at the safety guys for postponing the SW because they were not finished with testing, but this very same customer never had to stand in court for a safety issue with the SW, and so are many other carmaker.

When the Toyota pedal issue came out, we just could not believe that Toyota did not have the gas pedal override by brake safety in their SW.

[robocat]

> over 12,000 GLOBAL VARIABLES

How many global variables do each of Toyota's competitors have?

[hakfoo]

honestly, in the context of an embedded system, I'm not bothered by this.

I'd expect to see very little dynamic resource allocation, so you could probably put a permanent name to almost every byte of data in the system.

Remember, once it's compiled, everything's a global anyway, especially on chips small enough to not be set up with a strong multi-tasking and memory management model.

[SlowRobotAhead]

Does it matter if all your friends jump off a bridge?

Toyota got caught with inexcusably bad software practices. There is a reason Chrylser, GM, Ford, and others are pushing it out of house to suppliers.

[loeg]

https://xkcd.com/1170/

[jstarfish]

Look for trims of vehicles designed for fleet use. Those remain pretty spartan.

[SlowRobotAhead]

They look it, but they aren’t. The RAM truck that has manual windows and manual door locks - has the same ABS/ESP, Radio Hub, body controller, battery modules, 7 CAN buses (2018+), three or more LIN buses, etc etc as the full load models.

Same body controller guts in as an Alfa Romeo.

[magduf]

He wants heated and cooled seats. You're not going to find that in any fleet vehicle.

[albeec13]

Those aren't necessarily mandatory, but it certainly seems a lot of the safety tech is not available unless you also get things like that.

For reference, my wife and I bought a 2014 Mazda 6 Touring, which seems to be one of the few cars with a well-balanced mid-tier that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and still has good safety features (and did not come with heated/cooled seats).

[magduf]

Yeah, I got a 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring so I could get the heated seats, among other things (like xenon headlights, which are an important safety feature; halogen headlights should be banned, and the IIHS agrees with me).

But of course it also comes with a clunky and nearly useless nav system that costs a fortune if you look at the line-item cost. They only recently, finally, started supporting Android Auto.

[albeec13]

Yep, I've been mulling some DIY work on replacing the headlights and adding foglamps... Despite appearing bright on my garage door, the actual street visibility of the standard headlights is pretty awful on this car.

I'm not sure about 2015 Mazda 3, but I know 2016 and later cars can be upgraded to support Android Auto for a fee at the dealer (I want to say ~$500, which may or may not be worth it).

[magduf]

The AA upgrade is available to all Mz3 vehicles starting with the 2014 model year, since that's when they came out with the MazdaConnect system. The Mz6 is similar.

As for foglamps, I have the factory foglamps on mine and they're completely useless; I can't see them at all. Maybe it's because my xenons are so bright, but regardless, I never use them.

It should be possible for you to swap in the factory xenons if you want, though you might have to set something with ForScan to allow it to work. Not really sure about that.