[RightMillennial]

See, I grew up on a small farm. We raised chickens that my father would butcher. He'd string one up, slit its throat and it'd die instantly. After it was bled we'd pluck the feathers off and then cook it for supper. There wasn't anything particularly cruel about it, and I feel no moral qualms about eating chicken or any other meat for that matter. Maybe growing up on a farm taught me the reality of it which I see as normal.

[ozzyman700]

Feelings of parents actions being intrinsically "good" morally seem like they would factor in as well. Or at least, I feel like if I saw my father slaughter animals I would accept it more.

I also completely understand that vegan lifestyles are very far removed from the requirements of homesteading or personal farming. It may be impossible to harvest a nutritionally dense enough food in the winter that isn't a living creature.

As a person living where anytime of the year I can buy produce from around the world, I have more freedom to choose what I eat.

I'm interested in your ability to not feel moral turmoil about killing sentient beings. Have you ever struggled with it?

My issues around eating meat are based on the lack of necessity I feel towards it. I don't need to eat meat to survive, my choice to eat meat is a choice to support (in my opinion) murder.

A predator has no choice but to hunt, an eagle cannot decide to stop eating prey and switch to plants, it seemingly lacks the ability for self reflection of it's actions.

Your last sentence "Maybe growing up on a farm taught me the reality of it which I see as normal." The reality you explained of chickens being slaughtered in an instant way is still something I see as unnecessary.

[PeanutNore]

Not the guy you were replying to, but I've got an anecdote related to your question:

>I'm interested in your ability to not feel moral turmoil about killing sentient beings. Have you ever struggled with it?

I'm 33, grew up fishing with my grandfather but never went hunting until this last fall when I went deer hunting for the first time. My reason for the hunting trip was about 75% because I wanted to eat deer meat, and 25% to get to know myself better - to see if I could do it, basically. Going into it, I didn't know how I might react after killing a deer or whether I would feel conflicted.

I didn't really end up feeling conflicted at all about it. After taking the shot I was running on 100% pure adrenaline. The deer made it about 20 yards after being shot through the heart and lungs, and was dead when I got down from the treestand and located it. Beforehand I had sort of wondered if I'd feel sad, or grossed out, when skinning and butchering it - I didn't, but I felt a couple of other things. The first was hunger - once you peel the skin off and start cutting into the meat, it really, REALLY lights up the primitive parts of your brain that THIS IS FOOD, SO MUCH TASTY FOOD. The other thing I felt was in some way like I was actually a part of nature, like our ancestors who first made the leap from being prey to being themselves predators, rather than apart from nature.

Hope this makes some sense.

[ozzyman700]

The appeal to a primal urges makes sense, but do you rationally feel differently than you did when murdering the deer?

I have a feeling there are many things that are desirable and pleasurable, but not morally good.

[RightMillennial]

Have I ever struggled with it? No, nature itself is violent where the only fittest and luckiest survive long enough to procreate. Death is the inevitable outcome of life. I doubt our chickens had any worse of a life than they would have out in the wild (if they weren't domesticated). I know factory farming exists but I don't care enough about it to give up the deliciousness of meat. We're omnivores by nature.

[ozzyman700]

Interesting, I cannot relate to your lack of self-questioning your beliefs in this matter but I am positive I am similar about topics I feel strongly about in other areas.

While I feel it is delicious, I think there a multitude of things which are enjoyable, yet morally wrong.

Thank you for this exchange, I understand your position better and i hope I have helped to elucidate mine.

[RightMillennial]

Likewise. Discussions like these are interesting and a nice break from technology and politics.

[happytoexplain]

"... taught me the reality of it" is a bit of a downward-looking phrase. I think people understand the reality of it - that animals can be raised comfortably and killed in a way that looks gruesome but is humane, and animals can be made to suffer before and/or while they die, and both occur, the latter unfortunately in vast quantities. The question isn't that people don't know what's happening - it's that each person perhaps has a point on the spectrum I've illustrated where they are comfortable, a place where they might refuse to eat the meat (if they can even know the circumstances of a particular meal's origin), and a space in the middle where they are against the treatment of the animal, but not so much that they would not eat the meat. And of course, for some people there is no comfort zone - where even a comfortable life and painless killing is unacceptable.

The point is that I think the question is interesting, and I think you might be allowing yourself to dismiss it too easily in support of a personal identity you feel strongly about.

[RightMillennial]

I don't mean to dismiss the idea. I think animals, farmed or not, should be treated humanely. My point is living or growing up on a farm where animals do get slaughtered can affect your perspective on the matter. I doubt a lot of people really do know the reality of it if their only knowledge of it is from the shock and horror perspective. I suspect culture also plays a role.

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

It's funny how we always apply the term "humane killing" to animals and never to people.