[kbutler]

Eating meat and being against animal cruelty is no paradox. At most it is a dilemma - "want to eat meat, don't want to hurt animals".

The fact that many (most) people continue to eat meat means that people resolve the dilemma - they not be aware of the issue, consider it less significant, consider eating meat more important, etc.

The distance from the details of animal husbandry probably helps a lot. If I had to personally kill and clean all my meat, I'd either stop eating it or I'd get a lot more comfortable with the process. Then again, I have relatives who raise farm animals and others who hunt - distance from the process is not required.

[snarf21]

I agree with you that distance and disassociation are key. However, I would say the met eater's dilemma is to not want the animals tortured, not "hurt". It is also largely a time/cost tradeoff. You could raise your own chickens most places but most people don't want to take the time or expense.

I think there are other "paradoxes" that people are missing. For example, most people feel that Nestle is a pretty evil company[1] (especially in the developing world). However, some of the same people who hate meat eaters have no problem enjoying the Gerber, Blue Bottle Coffee, Perrier, San Pellegrino, Butterfinger, Nerds, Hot Pockets, Carnation, and Purina products they produce and sell. Who is to say which is the worst moral decision? We all hate that FB and Google are stealing our data and using it against us at the same time we enjoy 20%+ stock market returns in our 401K driven by these same companies. Life is very gray and there are no easy answers.

[1] https://www.zmescience.com/science/nestle-company-pollution-...

[trothamel]

I'd kind of reject that creating meat hurts animals. Kill, sure - but hurting them is counterproductive. There's a large amount of work done to lower the stress of the animal, both because it's the moral thing to do and because it makes the meat taste better.

The ideal killing involves rendering the animal senseless instantaneously.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqYYXswono for a demonstration of a well-run plant.

[bootlooped]

The counterpoint to that video would be the following:

https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch

Watch any consecutive 10 minutes of that, and let me know if that seems like it doesn't hurt animals. The evidence that industrial scale animal farming is harmful to animals is overwhelming. There should really be no debate about that fact at this point.

There is an incentive to raise them quick, raise them huge, and move them along the whole process as quickly as possible. Those things are generally not conducive with providing a humane life for them.

I agree the ideal killing is instantaneous, but the killing moment is not the only source of pain, and the ideal killing may not be very common. Sometimes we can't even kill humans quickly and painlessly, for example with the several botched lethal injections that took place a few years ago.

[noarchy]

"Video unavailable" when I try to view it.

[bootlooped]

Works for me in the US, could it be a region thing?

[noarchy]

Possibly, I'm trying to access it from Canada.

[Vinnl]

> hurting them is counterproductive.

That's certainly not necessarily the case. For example, the veal industry used to (perhaps still does - not sure) keep calves in tight cages in which they could not turn or lie down, because the "exercise" would turn their meat an undesirable pink. Likewise, laying eggs is a natural function for hens (like ovulation), so they will do so even when stressed out. The only reason there's some restraint on how many are kept in small areas, on uneven slatted floors, is regulation, not cost savings.

[ozzyman700]

I switched to meal replacement shakes for this reason. Right now I am drinking bottle soylent but I enjoyed powdered joylent for a while.

Meat provides such easily prepareable calories, I can't say the same of vegan dishes that I know of, generally a lot more of a thing has to be eaten and multiple things. I enjoy spending 20-30 minutes total consuming food a day and not needing to spend time preparing food, cooking, and cleaning.

[leesec]

No idea why you seem to think meat is some how more easily prepared than vegan food. Both meat and vegan have easily prepared dishes and more time-intensive ones.

[ozzyman700]

Entirely based upon instagram pictures of vegan food, which I am sure skew to the more visually interesting and intensive recipes. A lot of things seem like a lot of vegetables mixed together. I don't like to eat a lot of different things at once, I much prefer a single thing at once. I dislike the feeling of food in my mouth. For these reasons meal replacement shakes have been absolutely wonderful, without them I would constantly lose weight.

[leesec]

How bout eating a carrot. Or a banana. That is vegan food.

[ArrayList]

> Meat provides such easily prepareable calories

Ever hear of tofu? A tofu scramble takes maybe 15 mins to make, and it's actually good for you [0] rather than causing cancer. [1]

0. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=111

1. https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

[ozzyman700]

I have, I don't really like the lack of fibrous texture that meat has.

I have had an Impossible Burger that would be a drop in meat replacement for me if it ever becomes available to buy uncooked.

[bootlooped]

IMO the Beyond Burger is a better modern vegan burger patty. They have them in refrigerated 2-packs at Whole Foods. Sadly, they are not cheap.

[astura]

Impossible Burger 2.0 (which just debuted) will be sold in "select US grocery stores"

https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/07/impossible-foods-will-sel...

[ArrayList]

If you bread and bake tofu you can get it to be pretty damn close. Impossible Burger is great, and should be available soon - Beyond Burger should already be widely available.