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by scame 2692 days ago
As they say, if it's free, then you're the product. I (as a European) have much more confidence in my ISP to guarantee my privacy than in a company which mostly makes money out of advertisement.
3 comments

Your ISP doesn't sell user data?

I'm in the US and feel the exact opposite. I trust Google and CloudFlare far more than AT&T or Verizon.

With these proposals you still have to trust your ISP in addition to trusting Google and Cloudflare. You can avoid trusting all three, your ISP, Google, Cloudflare by trusting instead a single VPN provider of your choice (or a hosting provider where you can run your own VPN server).
A VPN provider has a much better source of data to mine than just about anyone else. On top of that, figuring out which ones deserve to be trusted is near impossible.
It doesn't have more data to mine than your ISP. It's not harder to figure out who to trust than with any other company. But unlike with any other company there is so much competition across the globe, that you can strategically pick specific jurisdictions and providers known to fight for your interests.
> It doesn't have more data to mine than your ISP.

Let's say you are behind a NAT and then you sign on to your VPN. You've helpfully disambiguated yourself from everyone else behind the NAT. Let's say you head out to a coffee shop and sign in to you VPN. Your ISP can't monitor you, but your VPN provider could.

> It's not harder to figure out who to trust than with any other company.

Have you ever looked for VPN reviews? There are many sites that seem to do nothing except review VPNs. One example: https://www.trusted-vpn.com/. And its "reviews" are basically all advertising copy. So, maybe you check out a bigger name site: https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403388,00.asp. And ... it's more advertising copy. The third sentence in the article: "Everyone ought to be using a virtual private network, or VPN, as often as possible" - which again, sounds more like an article trying to push VPN sales (with helpful affiliate links!) than to provide actual reviews.

And the thing is, let's say you do find some site that is both trustworthy and doesn't seem to be trying to push you to click an affiliate link. What can a reviewer actually tell you about how you should trust the VPN company? Basically all they can do is read the privacy policy and rate that - which is absolutely no better than believing Google or Cloudflare when they say they won't track you with their DNS servers.

So, by all means use a VPN - but don't trust it.

Read the article.
One nice aspect of DoH is that you can use it to circumvent local, lame DNS censorship. But ideally you will use a DoH server that is not run by for-profit companies known for data mongering.
Local censorship is still in your jurisdiction; if you have a grievance with it, you can address that (unless it is blocked for a generally accepted reason).

With DNS in cloud, you don't have that option. If the cloud companies do not respond to you, what are you going to do? The Google lack-of-support is well known for how it operates.

If the cloud companies do not respond to you, what are you going to do?

Use another, without having to cancel my whole Internet service, just by changing a configuration.

That said, I think the ISP should probably be the default.

I’ll actually use this as an example how that saying is wrong.

ISPs may be better in some regards because they are smaller. Some of them may also just not be competent enough to seriously harm you.

But not for a second do I believe they care about my privacy.

That tired saying is also full of holes: paying doesn’t stop you from being the product as well as the customer if the company can pull it off. That’s why they show you ads in cinemas even if you paid for the ticket. Conversely, not paying really does not change the incentives for Google and others to retain you: if everyone switches to some other search and email, they are done for no matter what.