[socceroos]

I dislike modern notions of abdicating responsibility for one's own actions by pointing to other problems.

I believe we're all personally responsible for our output. You can have the worst input in the history of mankind - and this should generate sympathy, understanding and a desire to help - but your output is still entirely your responsibility.

The are circumstances where someone can be considered incapable of reasonable output or the reasonable processing of input, but these circumstances are the exception to the rule.

[nvrspyx]

That's much easier said than done. Depression messes with a lot of systems and it's hard for anyone to recognize in themselves. If it was so easy to control, people wouldn't need treatment. It's so serious precisely because it interferes with daily functioning and it can't easily be controlled. This seems very narrow-minded in regards to the ripple effect that depression has on so many emotional systems. You're asking people to juggle a hundred things. It's just not feasible.

Now, this totally depends on how you define "reasonable" output, but it sounds a lot like telling someone with depression to just stop feeling depressed.

[socceroos]

You're right that it is much, much easier said than done. Getting to the bottom of _why_ you're behaving the way you are almost always takes a lot of thoughtful introspection, and often, meaningful and honest conversation with trustworthy, wise and knowledgable people around you. It also requires you to allow yourself to be vulnerable, humble and honest - none of which are easy by any stretch of the imagination.

Anecdotally, the pursuit of truly understanding your own intentions, behaviour and true 'self' is, I believe, a worthy lifetime pursuit that continuously yields surprises and benefits - some of those benefits being immeasurable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you're guarding against and concerned that empathy, sympathy, understanding and genuine care seem to be set aside when you focus, detrimentally, on the responsibility of the individual - even when that individual may be adversely affected by their circumstance.

I want to be clear that I would agree with you that when you set aside the concerns and context of the individual in the rigorous pursuit of justice or recompense then you do a harmful injustice to that person. True care and love need to be shown as a counterbalance to objective requirements and observations. If you take one without the other then, ultimately, everyone loses.

However, I believe it is important to specify there is a crucial distinction to be made between personal suffering, weakness and struggle and ones responsibility for their own actions, thoughts and words.

To put it another way, the things going on in your life as an individual do not, in any objective way, modify, absolve or exonerate the responsibility you must take for your choices in actions, thoughts and words.

Again in other terms, the inputs of your various life experiences, the proclivities inherent in your own physical makeup and the character flaws present in your nature as an individual do not, in any objective way, modify, absolve or exonerate the responsibility you must take for your actions, thoughts and words.

I've suffered my fair share of depression - I still grapple with the long-lasting effects of it. I can also attest to anger being one of the many things that were exacerbated by my depression.

I needed people around me to show understanding and care for my situation, and to be aware of where I might have particular struggles (short-temperedness, anxiety, conspiracy, neediness, apathy, etc).

They did show loving understanding, but that never absolved me of my objective responsibilities to myself or them. That is why I can say that my depression was extremely difficult and harrowing, but I am genuinely sorry for the manner in which I treated others as it was, objectively, inexcusable. That doesn't mean they didn't excuse many of my behaviours, they did, but their acts of long-suffering, graciousness and kindness didn't absolve my personal responsibility for what I chose to do.

I was never asked to stop feeling depressed - I was gently cared for, but I was also never told that my actions, thoughts or words were justified by my circumstance. I'm truly thankful for that.

My hope is that, as a society, we're all keenly aware of that balance of personal responsibility and gentle kindness and understanding. I personally feel like there is a significant portion of our society that justifies away the former by pointing to circumstance.

[shar3333f]

Childhood issues with emotional abuse/bullying can & do cause emotional systems to become unbalanced though.

It is not a matter of pure free will. If our emotional brain has been trained to scream at us with anxiety at a specific situation or if it is constantly on high alert it becomes tiring to maintain composure and outbursts may provide an outlet.

Now, a person can recognise this issue and visit a therapist to seek help with their emotional issues. But it first requires them to have recognition of the problem. I do not think it's an exceptional case where people are oblivious of their emotional brain causing them to have an irrational reaction to a situation. In fact I think it is quite common.

[davesque]

It's really about what's effective. For a lot of people who deal with depression, feeling like people are blaming them makes things way worse. In that sense, blame simply doesn't work to bring about a different outcome, even if someone seems entirely culpable from a common viewpoint.

[scotty79]

> You can have the worst input in the history of mankind

What if you have not the worst input but the worst hardware to process it?