[lettergram]

My point is criminal behavior is defined by the ruling class. So this pervasive 24/7 monitoring doesn’t necessarily reduce the overall harm to a society - in fact it may make it worse.

Also:

> We have millions of black people incarcerated, the result of systematic discrimination over generations.

Not even close to the extent China is persecuting - today. I won’t speak for generations past, clearly not ideal. But I think that’s kind of the point, we agree it’s not ideal.

[Fricken]

>Not even Close to the extent China is persecuting today

You might want to look that up. America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, even after you factor in the worst estimates for the Uyghur reeducation camps.

[lettergram]

Incarcerations are not persecutions. Arguably a negligible number of percecutions occur in the U.S., as most of the incarcerations are due to violent crimes. Most of the Uyghur re-education camps (which is just one of many examples known and unknown) are not due to violent crimes, but ethnic or political backgrounds (I.e. persecutions)

[chrischen]

There is a strong legacy component to African Americans and violent crime. You either believe that they are simply more inclined to violent crimes, or there's societal factors out of their control that push them towards that, such as denial of opportunities or institutionalized discrimination.

A great example is the fact that Nixon started the drug war with specifically designed laws to target black people: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nixon-drug-war-racist_u...

These types of things have long lasting effects to this day, that affect the African American population. Saying that they are now committing violent crimes so that it's justified is a copout on the factors that lead to it.

For example prestigious universities have strong bias towards legacy applicants. If your forefathers were incarcerated by discriminatory laws in the past, you're unlikely to be a legacy admission, or benefit from any legacy policies in society.

[hyeonwho4]

In America activists can potentially sue/appeal for to free those wrongly imprisoned, and the incarceration rate is about 0.75%. The Uyghurs, by contrast, are currently imprisoned at a rate of minimum 6% (calculated via lower estimate of concentration camp size and upper estimate of Ughur population in China), another 6% of their population is matched by live-in Han Chinese family monitors, and no one is even pretending that they broke any laws.

[chrischen]

Yes but African Americans make up 34% of the 6.8 million that are incarcerated. Maybe the rules causing this disparity are not written down anywhere like in China, but it's certainly ingrained into American society in practice.

https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

[smolder]

I think you might be a little less than objective when comparing your home team against the rest.