[fijiaarone]

Notice how every one of these tasks are things required of the engineer to satisfy the manager. None of it contributes to the productivity of the worker. And only a small portion of it has any relevance to the productive of the company as a whole.

In other words, the engineers would not notice if the engineering manager was not there (except they’d spend less time in meetings and reporting). And the company wouldn’t notice either — unless the engineers chose to use that extra time productively without being “managed” to.

[lazerwalker]

This sounds like you haven't had a competent manager before (nothing to be ashamed of, I was there once!)

Meetings like weekly 1:1s are supposed to be helpful for you as the engineer. They're a safe space for you to complain, and share what sucks about your job, and brag about what's going well. It's like work therapy, but a lot of the things that you complain about can actually become things your manager can fix over time.

Things like help in goal setting might not seem strictly necessary if you're self-driven enough. But doing good work doesn't help your career if nobody notices, and spending your time focused on Doing The Thing is time you're not spending playing a game of politics to make sure upper management is hearing your name all the time. Having a manager to establish a paper trail of what you claim your goals are, and then doing them, makes it easier for everybody above you in the organization to justify giving you a raise/promotion/etc.

I agree that, in a lot of situations, poorly-trained managers do more harm than good. But I promise it's theoretically possible for good managers to provide value!

[khazhou]

> They're a safe space for you to complain, and share what sucks about your job

Not trying to be a jerk here, but they're not meant to be a place just for employee to vent. They want the manager to do something about the problems. This is usually frustrating for both people, as the manager is often not empowered to fix the problem (such senior execs not having their shit together, other teams fighting, and all that usual fun stuff) and the employee gets tired of essentially asking every week for things to change, with no improvement.

[1123581321]

Your description does not sound like good management. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a mutual working meeting where both IC and manager commit to goals and achieve organizational changes in a more coordinated manner? How could a conversation with a manager with hire-promote-fire power be considered a safe space? An EAP specialist would be a more appropriate outlet for venting.

Now, I would commend a manager teaching an employee to not see management as an enlightened therapist/advocate/accountability partner, but rather as just another kind of specialist in the organization with certain powers and access channels. Sadly, that seems unlikely in the age of Rands, Ask a Manager, etc.

[itsnevereasy]

I think that's a very cynical view to take. Have you had experiences with good and bad managers? In my professional life I've had both, and I can tell you that the difference is night and day. I'm in a "bad management" spell right now (yay, academia) and I would love to have regular 1:1s and get feedback that I could actually act on.

[Rapzid]

Circle CI also supposedly only hires the "best engineers".. I didn't realize the best engineers needed so much focused management.

[scarejunba]

This is totally consistent. The best athletes receive the most focused coaching. This makes perfect sense. They need experts because they're at the leading edge. The slightest of annoyances is costing you major productivity. It is precisely the best that you need the best coaches for.

[Rapzid]

Before I write out a long response on how I, as somebody who played sports and received coaching, believe that non-technical managers of software engineers and sports coaches contrast more than they compare I have to ask.. I'm guessing your being sarcastic? :D

[vecter]

If that were the case, why does practically every company that has engineers also have engineering managers? Are we all just doing it wrong?