[sovnade]

There are for sure features that I disagree with in Win10 like telemetry and automatic reboots while I'm using the computer (which has been resolved), but it's a far stretch to say they're ruining windows. I don't think I've ever had a full crash on my current Win10 box that I use daily. Driver issues are almost nonexistent. It does everything I need it to without issue. I'm not sure what else I would want from an OS.

[rjf72]

How about not having spyware? I don't think we should use the word "telemetry" when we do actually mean spyware. Telemetry, in connotation, is data used for diagnostic, maintenance, and 'real' quality assurance. I opt-in to various forms of telemetry for a number of different pieces of software I use. I'm happy to help other developers create a better product. What Microsoft is doing goes far above any reasonable notion of telemetry alone.

Disable all telemetry options so much as you can. And then setup a sniffer, run Wireshark, etc on your traffic. Windows 10 is a disaster. It is constantly phoning back home, through a wide array of different addresses, sending back unknown data to Microsoft. It's safe to assume that, at the minimum, they're building extensive profiles on users which, in the most benign case, will be used to facilitate targeted advertising and messaging.

Aside from that there are also technical issues with the OS such as treating production deployment as sending out code seemingly just after it passes the 'it compiled' standard of quality assurance. An update for Windows 10 in April of last year was one of several that has resulted in bricking numerous machines. Another update a few months back was deleting files on users machines resulting in Microsoft having to roll back the update, and so on.

Not only is this itself all completely unacceptable, but I think it also reflects the new direction of the company. Even if you might be willing to tolerate their actions, and failures, today I think this reflects a new Microsoft. Put another way I think these issues are likely to become more substantial, and not less, as time progresses.

---

As an aside, I say this all as a Windows 'enthusiast.' My 'native' environment is Visual Studio working in .NET, C# in particular. I've also been using Windows since 3.1, but Windows 10 is simply unacceptable to me as an operating system. I'm still happily running Windows 7, which also has no issues with stability/drivers. The day Microsoft decides to try to make Visual Studio Windows 10 only is the day my Ubuntu partition gets bumped to the top of the boot order.

So yeah, at least from my perspective, Windows under Nadella has indeed been destroyed.

[Ruxbin1986]

So,

We don't know what data Microsoft is sending back but for whatever reason we've somehow concluded it must be incredibly invasive to the point where it's spyware?

If you are that concern with security. Use an air gaped device or don't even use electronic storage at all.

Or better yet just purchase Windows 10 Enterprise and turn all Telemetry off - which is entirely supported.

[rjf72]

They don't make a secret of this. Here [1] are their terms of service as it relates to privacy. They add a substantial amount of fluff that has no effective meaning in the terms. For instance one of the most overt example of this is in this statement,

"We share your personal data with your consent or to complete any transaction or provide any product you have requested or authorized. We also share data with Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries; with vendors working on our behalf."

They lead with consent as if it means something, but it is part of an "OR" clause. That means that they are listing consent as but one example of scenarios where they will share your data. It's tautological fluff. This clause can be accurately stated as, "We share your personal data with Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries, and with vendors." Here are the entire terms with the unrestrained fluff removed:

"Microsoft collects data from you, through our interactions with you and through our products. You provide some of this data directly, and we get some of it by collecting data about your interactions, use, and experiences with our products. We also obtain data about you from third parties.

We use data to personalize our products and make recommendations, advertise and market to you, which includes sending promotional communications, targeting advertising, and presenting you with relevant offers. We combine data we collect from different contexts (for example, from your use of two Microsoft products) or obtain from third parties to make informed business decisions.

We share your personal data with Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries and with vendors working on our behalf. Your ability to access or control your personal data will be limited, as permitted by applicable law."

I've removed fluff but in no way changed what was stated or removed it from context (aside from non-meaningful fluff). What is said above is literally in the terms you agree to with Windows. This is the reason that in times past if you wanted to upgrade from e.g. Windows 98 to Windows XP, that you went out and spent a hundred bucks on an upgrade key. Yet to not 'upgrade' from Windows 7 to Windows 10 for 'free' you had to aggressively fight off Microsoft who made every effort to force you to 'upgrade.' It's because the operating system is spyware and thus profit is generated primarily not by sales, but by harvesting and exploiting data on the people using it.

In times past Microsoft had a strong monopoly on the software market. Now a days every product I use and game I run, besides Visual Studio, is supported natively or through WINE/Proton on Linux. Creating some false dichotomy of 'don't user computers or the internet' or 'use windows' is just weird, especially on a site like this. Windows no longer has a monopoly. But I do think Visual Studio is a really great product, and so I'm happy enough to continue using Windows 7 with the spyware 'updates' disabled. But the moment that they decide to try to spin that product onto Windows 10 (which I suspect may happen with Visual Studio 2020) - then I lose my final tether to this ecosystem.

[1] - https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/privacystatement

[binarycrusader]

The Data Diagnostic Viewer lets you view telemetry and diagnostic data sent to Microsoft:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/diagnostic-data-viewer/9n8...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/01/24/micro...

[will_pseudonym]

I have an annoying recurring bug in explorer.exe where, when playing full-screen media, the task bar is shown, obscuring the bottom of the content. I have a batch file on my desktop to kill/start explorer.exe it happens so often. That type of issue never happened in Windows 7/XP.