[nailer]

No. Not at all.

Either the children surrounded the man and one boy stood threateningly close (as the Washington Post reorted at https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/20/it-was-gett...), or this did not happen.

As it turns out (Bari Weiss at the NYT viewed over 200 hours of footage) this did not happen. The man moved into the middle of the boys and stood very close to one of them. You can watch this from multiple angles and multiple cameras on YouTube and confirm this for yourself. David Brooks in the NYT also has an excellent summary: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/opinion/covington-march-f...

Reality is not a matter of perception.

[TarpitCarnivore]

I am not disputing the moments before and during. There is no doubt the events going on were a powder keg of problems waiting to tip off.

However my comment was about how that actual scene can be viewed differently by people, and is exactly what is happening. This is not a matter of scientific facts being disputed, it's an interpretation of a real life event that took place. Too many people, the scene of 30-40 boys yelling and acting how they did invoked a sense of fear and intimidation to them. Too many others, it was just 'boys being boys'.

The other reason people are so miffed over this is because of the actual people in it and the narrative. For one, a boys family had the means to hire a PR firm to help with the ordeal (again, a place of privilege). And two, there is so much hand wringing over this boy and this event, but for some reason when many young men have been shot or hurt by cops it's often met with negative depictions of the person hurt. You can call this whataboutism all you want, but that's the reality of it. Why in this instance where a boy and his group of friends, that are clearing acting up and provoking others (not even touching the negative nature of their hats), are given a free ride as 'boys being boys' but yet we chastise people who get in trouble with cops? Aren't those same people "just being boys"?

[nailer]

> I am not disputing the moments before and during.

You mentioned a fact was a matter of people interpreting a narrative. "While you say the narrative is wrong, many feel the narrative was right." That is not how facts work.

> There is no doubt the events going on were a powder keg of problems waiting to tip off.

Nobody is discussing whether there were "many problems".

We are debating whether children surrounded and intimidated an old man as reported by the Washington Post. We are doing so because WaPo was cited as an example of 'real news'.

That did not happen. WaPo was wrong.

> This is not a matter of scientific facts being disputed

Do you think the boys surrounded and intimated the old man?

You keep discussing unrelated issues without specifically answering whether you believe this happened or did not happen.

[TarpitCarnivore]

> You mentioned a fact was a matter of people interpreting a narrative. "While you say the narrative is wrong, many feel the narrative was right." That is not how facts work

I'm speaking to how some watched videos and felt they agreed with WaPo on the matter. There is no 'fact' to this story beyond an interpretation of events. This isn't a situation of clear cut and dry (like the recent released footage of the Chicago officer). It's people reacting to a situation and how it's making them feel.

> We are debating whether children surrounded and intimidated an old man as reported by the Washington Post. We are doing so because WaPo was cited as an example of 'real news'. > That did not happen. WaPo was wrong.

Your statements are perfectly proving my point. To people that scene and moment gave them a sense of intimidation. You cannot tell them their feelings and interpretation of the situation is wrong. If I walk up to you and stand in your face, and you tell me that it made you feel intimidated I don't have the right to go "Stop, you're wrong".

> You keep discussing unrelated issues without specifically answering whether you believe this happened or did not happen

Im trying to explain to you why that particular situation is not something you can clearly point to as fake news. I'm trying to paint a larger picture to the whole matter and why many took issue with it.

Since you're so hung up on the matter, yes to me I viewed the way those kids acted as intimidating and inappropriate. If I saw that many kids in a group, wearing those hats, and chanting the way they did I would not want to be near it.

[nailer]

> There is no 'fact' to this story beyond an interpretation of events.

Yes there is. Either the boys surrounded and approached the old man to stand intimidatingly close as WaPo reported, or they did not.

>> Do you think the boys surrounded and intimated the old man?

> that particular situation is not something you can clearly point to as fake news.

Yes it is. Things are real, or they are not.

You seem genuinely confused about the nature of reality.

Let's not continue communicating.

[TarpitCarnivore]

> Either the boys surrounded and approached the old man to stand intimidatingly close as WaPo reported, or they did not

The video clearly shows boys standing around a man, with one of them face to face with him. That is right in the video, clear as day. That is very much a clear fact. What you seem intent on breaking down is whether or not this was seen as some form of intimidation tactic and I'm trying to explain to you that people can, and do, interpret personal encounters like that in varying ways.

You seem to be one who can't understand the way in which people are able to react and interpret actions of people different. You asked me my opinion of the situation and then proceeded to tell me that my perception of reality is wrong. I watch that video and I personally feel that they are being intimidating, how am I in a 'confused nature of reality'. I am watching people confront each other and reacting to the situation.

Your whole argument on this video boils down to "your personal feelings don't match mine, so you're wrong".

[nailer]

> > Either the boys surrounded and approached the old man to stand intimidatingly close as WaPo reported, or they did not

> The video clearly shows boys standing around a man, with one of them face to face with him.

Did the boys surround and approach the old man to stand intimidatingly close as WaPo reported?

Answer Y or N.

> > You seem genuinely confused about the nature of reality.

> how am I in a 'confused nature of reality'.

That is not the what I wrote. I've included the real quote above.

I say that you're confused about the nature of reality because you repeatedly say a documented fact is a matter of perception, and cannot say whether you believe it is true of false.

We are on Hacker News right now. If someone reported we were having this conversation on Ars Technica, that would be false. That is not a matter of perception or feeling. This is how facts work.

Do you the footage of the old man approaching the group of boys and standing very close to one of them is fake?