[adetrest]

I have a very hard time understanding why do people cut corners and do not follow safety instructions to the T. They're there for a reason, so why ignore them? Same thing why I'll never understand why people bitch about OSHA. They exist to save your limbs/life, why on earth would you ever berate them for that? It's literally the best thing workers have to protect them, because their employers would value money over safety a lot more if OSHA didn't exist.

[gambiting]

So as someone who has spent some time with and around physical workers - because all of this safety stuff takes time, and time is money, so if you can trade a little bit of safety for some extra time, then it seems like a good trade off.

Like, I worked with people who climb industrial chimneys professionally(for inspection, cleaning, etc). Now, in the UK the safety code requires that they have to clip in to the ladder they are climbing with a safety harness every 2 steps. So take two steps, attach one clip to the step above you, remove the clip from the step around your waist, repeat until you are at the top. Now - this might be a safety procedure, but literally no one follows it - simply because if you wanted to do that, it would take you 30 minutes to climb a 100m tall chimney. And these guys have absolutely zero fear of heights so for them cliping in is stupid anyway.

I imagine the same logic applies here - sure I could mount the blade guard....or just cut the plank carefully like I did 1000 times before already...."what am I, an idiot?".

[oasisbob]

Those are good points - and match what I've seen with arborists who climb trees, prune, and do full removals for a living - chunking trees down from the top, oftentimes while they're in them.

A lot of safety procedures and best practices diverge wildly from those in other industries. I get the impression it's probably the same way with chimneys in the UK, given that industry's long history. [1]

In arboriculture, the following weird things are acceptable(-ish, depending on the country):

- The climber is often supported by a single non-redundant rope, unlike rope access in other fields where two ropes are required.

- "Riding the ball", or using a crane to hoist a human load, is done in exceptional circumstances.

- Some critical PPE gear is often hand-made, it's very common for climbers to splice their own ropes.

- Even the most die-hard chainsaw-safety advocates will grudgingly acknowledge that sometimes situations call for one-handed use.

Some of these industry practices are in direct-conflict with more broad OSHA and/or EN safety standards. It isn't that the industry disregards safety - most climbers and crews I know are very safety conscious. Rather, the situations are different enough that the risk-mitigation calculus arrives at different answers.

Where a ladder climber may be not-always attached to the ladder, in the tree-care industry, that's utterly unacceptable.

[1] eg, one of the many Fred Dibnah videos on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R3-YwDZrzg

[peterwwillis]

So, weird/dumb question, I don't know if you have the answers to this, but why don't ladders have round tubular hand rails? Like, no residential or commercial ladder i've seen has hand rails, so I'm always gripping tightly to the sides or the steps.

But this seems stupid. Anyone with hands will realize that sliding your gripped palm around and up a round tube in a neutral position (that is, with your palms facing each other, not facing down) feels more secure then hand-over-hand on the steps, which don't give good grip anyway because the lip of the step faces down, not up.

[TheOtherDave]

Unless the ladder is anchored to something, it’d probably just fall over backwards if you put any weight on such a rail. They get unbalanced if the load isn’t kept forward.

[jaclaz]

Ladders with tubular hand rails exist alright here (Italy/Europe).

Examples:

http://www.ippis.it/negozio/scale-in-alluminio/scala-in-allu...

https://www.ediliamo.com/scala-professionale-con-parapetto-f...

[Gravityloss]

At least over here, in maintenance ladders over a few stories high there's a central C shaped track where you attach a metal car about the size of a fist. Then you attach your harness to the car. The car can't come out of the rail. It also has a mechanism that it only moves if you pull it outwards.

Makes climbing really easy and safe. Technically you don't even need to use your hands for anything .

[oftenwrong]

There are many types of fall arrestor systems for ladders, so you can climb a ladder without stopping, but still be caught in a fall.

[gambiting]

Sure, but not every chimney/antenna/building in the country is fitted with those. Quite often it's just a straight ladder with no extra safety rails going straight up 100-200 metres. In that case the basic principles(clipping in every 2 steps) should apply - but like I said, are frequently ignored because of the time they would take.

[oftenwrong]

Yes this is a huge issue. The solution really is to make safe ladder-climbing more convenient and inexpensive, so that people can and will choose to use it.

I do not do work-at-height, but my (unoriginal) proposal for a simple solution is to run a steel cable from bottom to top, anchored at both ends. This is cheap and low maintenance. Then a worker can bring their own cable-grabbing fall arrestor with a progressive-tear lanyard. Attach yourself to the cable at one end of the ladder, and climb up/down as you would normally until you reach the other end.

[markvdb]

Obligatory reference: Fred Dibnah, steeplejack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F04dGK1_wYA

[mikestew]

I grew up cutting firewood with a 1m diameter buzz saw driven by the power take-off of the tractor via a long belt that would be more than happy to consume your loose clothing or hair with you still attached. The single safety guard for that whole contraption was barely worthy of the word (it was mainly to give you something to put the wood against). Cord after cord was cut with that saw, and both my father and I still have all of our limbs and fingers.

If that buzz saw didn't kill me, I'm not fiddling with that stupid safety guard on the table saw/lawn mower/high-amperage device; I've got shit to do, I know what I'm doing.

(In reality, I personally use every safety feature of every cutty/stabby/choppy powered device I own. I'm not getting any smarter or attentive in my old age.)

[nkurz]

Speaking of complacency around giant spinning blades, I was putting on cedar shingles last year, and wondered how they were made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HBfj423cc

[TeMPOraL]

I so regret watching this video, made me sick in the stomach.

It's absolutely insane, and what's worse, the person posting it considers this a positive advertisement of their company.

[vvanders]

Oh man heavy machinery(esp tractors and PTOs) are a whole nother class of things that can kill you in the blink of an eye.

PTO Guards, ROPS, 4WD(almost no tractors have brakes on the front wheels, so running a loader downhill can be really dangerous). All things I'm incredibly thankful for.

[sillyquiet]

I can answer that I think, although I certainly don't agree with the reasoning.

The answer is twofold: number one is 'oh, these instructions are overly cautious, my expertise trumps them', and that is compounded by the fallacy of 'well, I've done it and seen it done for x years this way and have never had a problem'.

[cortesoft]

Because risky behavior doesn't always lead to disaster, and people get complacent. You cut a corner on safety one time, and nothing happens, so you do it again. Eventually it catches up to you.

[stronglikedan]

Humans naturally have varying degrees of patience, and thus varying degrees of regard for safety measures.