[inferiorhuman]

> And yes, I still consider it a weakness of UNIX that "logout" doesn't really mean "logout", but just "maybe, please, if you'd be so kind, i'd like to exit, but not quite". I mean, that's not how you build a secure system.

As an aside this is the height of arrogance to suggest that the systemd is somehow a more secure alternative. Lest this be considered an empty ad hominem attack, let me quote the pwnie you won in 2017[1]:

> Where you are dereferencing null pointers, or writing out

> of bounds, or not supporting fully qualified domain names,

> or giving root privileges to any user whose name begins with

> a number, there's no chance that the CVE number will

> referenced in either the change log or the commit message.

> But CVEs aren't really our currency any more, and only the

> lamest of vendors gets a Pwnie!

1: https://pwnies.com/archive/2017/winners/#lamestvendor

[arpa]

> giving root privileges to any user whose name begins with > a number

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237

oh my god, what a spectacular issue. And, seriously, the Poetterings' response is basically "not my job" and "not a bug". And this person develops something that sits at the core of a modern linux system...

[inferiorhuman]

> oh my god, what a spectacular issue. And, seriously, the Poetterings' response is basically "not my job" and "not a bug". And this person develops something that sits at the core of a modern linux system...

All the while Lennart claims that he's making Linux more secure. FFS.

Edit: I forgot about this

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and...

> He (Theodore Ts’o) goes on to describe how he previously had to neuter policykit’s security (rendering his system very vulnerable) just to get his system working, and how he has found systemd "very difficult sometimes to figure out".

And:

> As for Kay Sievers, maybe he should rename himself to Kay Sewers, because that’s exactly what he smells of. He told to IETF internet area director and previously DHCP working group co-chair “Tod Lemon” to lmgtfy when he asked about a systemd related git repository.

This gem sums it up perfectly though:

> Yet just two days ago, we see Linus Torvalds (the creator of Linux and maintainer of the Linux kernel), launching into a tirade against – yes, you guessed it – systemd developers because of their atrocious response to a bug in systemd that is crashing the kernel and preventing it from being debugged. Linus is so upset with systemd developer Kay Sievers (gee, where I have heard that name before – oh, that’s right, he’s the moron who refused to fix udev problems) that Linus is threatening to refuse any further contributions from this Red Hat developer, not just because of this bug, but because of a pattern of this behavior – a problem for Kay because Red Hat is also foaming at the mouth to have their kernel-based, no doubt bug- and security-flaw-ridden D-Bus implementation included in our kernels. Other developers were so peeved that they suggested simply triggering a kernel panic and halting the system when systemd is so much as detected in use.

[the_why_of_y]

Only the root user can put such an invalid unit file into a directory where systemd will read it - what is the security impact exactly?

[benchaney]

The security impact is that if you allow a user to choose their own username, and you use a standard POSIX specified way of verifying that the username is valid, and at any point in time you run a service as that user, an attacker can gain root privileges.

[inferiorhuman]

Or if you have a package that generates a service user that starts with a digit. Then you'll be running an arbitrary service as root in which case any vulnerabilities become that much more serious. Or have things regressed so much with systemd that the standard is now verify each and every thing you have the init system do?

The other problem is, of course, the utter lack of understanding Lennart demonstrates by being so dismissive and the increased potential for systemd to be hiding future security vulns.

[youdontknowtho]

You know it's open source and that you could actually get involved? If you submit a pull request and it doesn't get merged you can take your concerns to the the larger group.

As to the stuff mentioned in the pwnie. Those sound like great contributions that would be appreciated.

You could also take your concerns to the distro development group. If that doesn't work you could also customize your distro with a custom build of systemd.

If you still don't get satisfaction you can stop using it.

If you dislike how they do thing you have options. Or, you could just be mean on a forum...