[wahern]

> “And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn't be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters — who your neighbor is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit ... or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.” Lee Kuan Yew, April 20, 1987.

Taiwan was "civilized" by 50 years of Japanese occupation that wasn't brutal or repressive as Korea. Though I think Taiwan was more of a backwater island nation when the Japanese came. Likewise for Hong Kong with Britain. Taiwan and Hong Kong sort of organically grew into and internalized the modern legal and business structures laid down by the occupiers. China is having to do what Lee Kuan Yew did, which was transform an unruly, anarchic, but otherwise sophisticated culture into one that obeys and values modern legal, rules-based norms.

[selestify]

How did China get its empires on and off for thousands of years of ancient history if its people are unruly and anarchic?

[wahern]

The same way the German "barbarians" did? Unruly doesn't imply backward; anarchic doesn't imply chaotic.

Also, China is a huge country with many cultures. Closer to Beijing the culture was historically more legalist and authoritarian. The southern coastal trading cultures were more anarchic. And I think that's still very much the same today, except because of industrialization and nationalization there's conflict where historically there was a natural symbiosis and passivity regarding the respective roles.