[clouddrover]

Ideology is part of it. Some Americans believe socialized health care is unjust:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/19/why-socialized-health-ca...

It's a position that doesn't make much sense in practical terms. Australia has universal public health care. Australia spends half as much per capita on health care than the US does and Australians have a longer life expectancy than Americans.

Australia's paying half as much for better health outcomes. For me, universal public health care isn't socialism as much as it is a better business model.

[ianhowson]

Just addressing the Australia vs. US healthcare thing for a moment, I need to vigorously disagree with you on the implied superiority of the Australian system. I would argue that:

1. Quality of care is better in the US

(totally subjective, but in the US we're waiting less and getting better treatment with less runaround/referrals/arguments; if you have insurance, you'll get whatever you want without a fight)

2. Cost is about on par with Australia

(AUD3000/year for private health, plus 1000-3000 for Medicare supplement, plus whatever you pay in taxes; in terms of raw cash paid it's actually very close. But Australian PHI doesn't cover anything of value until you're hospitalised; urgent but non-life-threatening stuff is basically paid out of pocket. US has HSAs and practically everything is covered.)

3. US healthcare spend is measured in monopoly money and, assuming you have insurance, real costs are not easily comparable.

I don't have any hard data on these, though, and so am very happy to be educated.

[mrguyorama]

>in the US we're waiting less and getting better treatment with less runaround/referrals/arguments; if you have insurance, you'll get whatever you want without a fight

Stating this as fact basically means you've never been to an American doctor, or are extremely lucky in your local hospitals. Waiting months for an appointment just so you can be told to see someone else is par for the course if you don't have a "normal" health condition in America. And after all the playing around trying to find someone actually willing to diagnose you with something, you then get to play the fun game of paying the bills. Remember, no matter the discounts the insurance company has with the hospital, they still benefit by denying you coverage through whatever fine print they can manage. They get paid regardless

[ianhowson]

> Stating this as fact

Uh, I pretty clearly stated it as personal experience.

I did overstate the 'get whatever you want' part, though. I'm making the point that in Australia, insurance is both compulsory and useless. In practice, all it offers is slightly higher priority treatment than non-insured patients should you go to hospital. Should you need a specialist, you'll usually pay them out of pocket -- insurance will (at best) cover a small percentage of the fees, and usually nothing.

> Waiting months for an appointment just so you can be told to see someone else is par for the course

This is also the case in Australia.

[clouddrover]

> totally subjective

Some pragmatic numbers:

1. Health spending: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...

2. Health prices: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/how-do-...

[FireBeyond]

> we're waiting less

I had a ligament injury after a car accident. Without traveling more than hour (and I live in a major populated area), I could not get physical therapy for '8-10 weeks').

> urgent but non-life-threatening stuff is basically paid out of pocket. US has HSAs and practically everything is covered

As someone who lived in AU for 20 years, and in the US for 12, huh? I never paid more than $20 for urgent care in Australia. IF you have a HSA here, sure, you can pay your co-pay, which would be $20-40 anyway, with that, but most people don't have the luxury of a HSA. And if you're uninsured, urgent care here will charge you $200-300.