[tunesmith]

"Chinese people need to be controlled, otherwise they will do whatever they want."

Haha... wow, that circular reasoning is so tight it's almost not even a circle anymore. "Chinese people need to be controlled, otherwise they will not be controlled". I have a theory that all circular reasoning can be reduced down to a (probably faulty) axiom or assertion.

[chaostheory]

For the record, I strongly disagree with Jackie's opinion. It does need more context though. China is a low trust society that doesn't have a strong rule of law. What this translates into is fake medicine, fake food, newly built buildings and bridges that either fall apart or are falling apart, police and low level government officials who need bribes for mundane things and so on. Jackie mainly wants a stronger rule of law. (He's just wrong about accepting a government with unlimited power. eg he thinks protests are bad) Of course, you're not going to get all of this from someone who didn't receive a lot of formal education, speaking in the 3rd language that he learned, in a small sound bite.

[wenc]

> China is a low trust society that doesn't have a strong rule of law. What this translates into is fake medicine, fake food, newly built buildings and bridges that either fall apart or are falling apart, police and low level government officials who need bribes for mundane things and so on.

I'm sure this is all true, but I'm curious, have you lived in China? What's your take on the lived experience in China?

I just wanted to see this from different perspectives, because the United States has many parts that are perceived as hellholes in the abstract (like the city of Chicago where I live), but in reality daily life is quite normal and livable.

[chaostheory]

Yes. My perspective is skewed though. I know it as a child who didn't know any better, and now as an adult Americanized outsider with ties that keep weakening with time, exacerbated by differences in culture. While some things have stayed the same, a lot has also changed since I lived there.

Anywhere is livable, if you either don't have a choice or you're ignorant of alternatives. Looking at it as an American, parts are definitely livable as long as you don't mind the pollution. (I remember being so shocked at how clean the US was when I first arrived.) Life in general feels "faster". Kind of like NYC even crazier. I'd say the hardest part will be being accustomed to the culture. It's not as complicated as formal Japanese culture, but there's a lot of subtle formalities you have to learn and adapt to...

Oh - the big thing is plumbing and bathrooms. While it has gotten a lot better, you probably want to bring a roll of toilet paper with you anywhere you go. You may have to get used to squat toilets depending on where you go too. Aside from occasional food poisoning, it's definitely livable

[tivert]

> Aside from occasional food poisoning

I swamp my system with probiotics whenever I go there and I haven't had any food poisoning issues. I used these on my last visit: http://www.jarrow.com/product/662/Jarro-Dophilus_EPS

YMMV. I haven't been to China without doing the probiotics thing, but I have gotten sick in other places without them.

[SolaceQuantum]

The reasoning is steeped in connotation that you may have missed. Might I suggest an alternate reasoning: From the view of an oppressor, oppression is necessary to protect the oppressed from being able to choose socially harmful behavior. In this view, oppressing someone is actually saving them.