[hrabago]

Ten years ago, JavaScript was my go to when I wanted to expose others to coding. It still is today, but now that comes with the caveat that the most popular libraries and framework require a significant amount of prior knowledge to understand and to start using.

I haven't done this exercise in a long while, but the last time I tried to start a project from the "most current and stable releases and recommendations", I ended up not being able to get anything running. In the end, I had several hundred megabytes of libraries downloaded, a complicated configuration, and a non-working application.

Today, there are toolsets to get you started with everything and produce a running application, but it's almost totally opaque. I'm afraid to use them because the first time something breaks, I don't know if I would be able to resolve the issue.

I would still rather have a decent understanding of how things connect.

[SketchySeaBeast]

That was my biggest eyeopener when I started using React - the piece I know just the tippy top of the iceberg. While that's true with a lot of languages (it's not as though I know what's going on with the whole .NET stack) it seemed especially egregious. I had a site up and running quickly, but it pretty much entirely magic.

Do you teach JavaScript first just because of how fast it is to get it up and running (ie. "Just open your web browser")? If I remember correctly it was much more vexing than a lot of compiled / strongly typed languages as the errors in those languages came sooner. In JavaScript there have been times where it loads and runs, but nothing happens, and I had no idea why, which proved frustrating.

[kibwen]

JavaScript is still what I use to introduce programming to new people, because for people who haven't done their dues learning how to use a command-line, the hardest part of getting started with programming is getting your computer set up to do it at all. And since everyone already has a browser, getting started with coding only requires showing them how to open the developer console.

[pdimitar]

Installing stacks like Rust, Erlang/Elixir, Go and maybe OCaml is so fast these days that you likely will not have halved your coffee by the time it's done.

I agree getting to the browser dev console is instant gratification but I don't view 5 minutes of installation as a punishment from Hell either.

[oaiey]

Fair, but most stacks including the previous infamous ones are two or three lightweight installs away. The VSCode/Atom/Sublime generation of IDE replacements made that possible.

I come from an environment (.NET) where setup was a day or two of work but now is a matter of 10 or less minutes).

[jancsika]

10 minutes is still two orders of magnitude longer than "<ctrl-shift-c>."

[pdimitar]

And? Is 10 minutes so damning?

[undersheet]

I disagree. Assume you are an average coder, you should have a clue of basic JS:

1 week to learn JS latest language features

1 week to grok node, npm and the power of the JS object

1 week for React, basic stuff not redux

1 more week to dabble around

4 weeks and you should be able to be productive JS with its most important flavors. Tell me any other ecosystem where you are that fast.