[vedantroy]

You shouldn't make broad statements like that. In my personal experience, I have found Javascript much easier than C++. If I want to install a package, I can just do "npm install <package_name". Also, 0-configuration bundlers like Parcel make building complex projects very easy.

Now, I'm sure some people have an easier time with Makefiles, but I've found it even easier to get up and running in Javascript. Most of the tools in Javascript (create-react-app, Webpack, etc.) are very user friendly, making setup trivial.

It is best not to speak with such authority/certainty that C++ is easier to use than Javascript.

[wanted2]

I'm reading this because I'm about to move back to systems programming after a 6 year journey into Javascript Nodejs full-stack developement.

Don't underestimate the pile of garbage JS indeed is! Yes, you can install a package with ease, you'll have to do that with about 100 packages that keep changing all the time with all kinds of breaking changes (not talking about their 1000's of dependencies). I'm also sick and tired of the hipster JS community where every piece of shit can become a hype. With JS you'll be forced to work with things you hate. Almost all codebases I have to work with are horrendous piles of rubbish that often need to be completely rewritten from scratch. Almost everything you write doesn't last. You've spent a year learning Backbone? Just throw it away, now it's Angular you can start all over again. One year later? Stop doing Angular, it's React now, just start all over again! Hey, now we have some hipsters promoting Vue, they say it's the holy grail, just start all over again, it's fun! Flux stores? Fluxxor, Alt, Redux, Redux with Saga's, or just go with Thunk? It doesn't matter that much, it only lasts for 1 or 2 years! I'm completely sick and tired of it, including the fact that I'm only working on stupid e-commerce websites..

Talking about make files, a magnitude easier than trying to setup babel and webpack for a medium sized SSR SPA. I recently had to upgrade from babel 6 to 7, what a fuckin pain that was, so many changes, the deployment server refused to boot etc, etc..

Mind your step going into JS!

[vedantroy]

I'm not too worried about the constant "framework hype". Although there are many frameworks, React is a solid option that remains relatively dominant. Yes, others exist like Vue and Angular--but I can be pretty confident that React isn't leaving anytime soon.

Similarly, with C++ there are also many packages to do the same thing. This summer I was using TLS and I found a variety of options, OpenSSL, mbedTLS, wolfSSL, etc. etc.

I do agree that it is tiring to learn some of React's accessories. I have never used Redux and when I do need some form of global state management, I think I will use MobX.

The complaints about code base quality and "stupid e-commerce websites" don't seem to be problems inherent to Javascript, although I suspect the problems Javascript solves are less interesting than the ones C++ solves.

All in all, I feel like C++ (for me) has been more difficult than Javascript due to a lack of standardization and the community being less beginner friendly.

That being said, I was trying to use a relative obscure feature (SGX) in C++, whereas with Javascript I stick to relatively mainstream applications.

[ontouchstart]

Don't mistake easy with simple.

https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy

JavaScript is a simple language that can be made extremely complicated via "simple" tooling. You can open the node_modules folder and see how sausages are made. :-)

C++ is dealing with essential complexities, there is no silver bullet:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet

[mmjaa]

>It is best not to speak with such authority/certainty that C++ is easier to use than Javascript.

Unless of course you have 30+ years of experience in the software business, have kept abreast of all the latest and greatest distractions from proper software engineering practices, have built a few hundred examples of such personally, and have no desire to throw more garbage at the fiery pile. As is my personal case. Node/Javascript are the Visual Basic of the 21st Century - this doesn't mean people haven't been productive with them as technologies, just that they've been productive in spite of them.

[ontouchstart]

If you have a powerful desktop computer, please open this notebook on nbviewer, scroll down all the way to the bottom and see what I mean:

https://nbviewer.jupyter.org/gist/ontouchstart/1af198f8535eb...