Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by ehasbrouck 2718 days ago
This was one of the issues raised, and resolved in Dr. Ibrahim's favor, in the second of the three appeals to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in this case.

The court found that she had sufficient connection to the US (including having lived in the US for years, and having children who were born in the US and are US citizens) to give her legal "standing" to raise these issues.

However, non-US citizens outside the US generally don;t have any right to challenge denials of US visas in US courts, which is why she remains barred from the US with no way to challenge that. (It's possible that one of her children could raise that issue in a US court, but they are afraid that if they they return to the US, the US might put them too on the no-fly list again, trapping them in the US.)
1 comments
dane-pgp 2718 days ago
I'm not sure if being "trapped" in the US is the biggest concern for her US-citizen children visiting America. Couldn't they travel by land from Canada? Hopefully them bringing such a case would cost less than $4 million and 14 years.
link
ehasbrouck 2717 days ago
People have bene prevented from flying between Canada and Europe becuase of objections from the US government. So being able to cross from the US to Canada (assuming Canada would let her in, which isn't assured if she is a US but not Canadian citizen), that wouldn't guarantee being able to get back to her home and family and profession in Malaysia.
link
dane-pgp 2717 days ago
I'd be interested to read an article about people being prevented from flying between Canada and Europe because of the US government. I think I remember a case of Canada refusing to let someone enter as part of a pre-booked journey which had a leg that took them into the US, but even then, I don't suppose that the affected passenger was a US citizen.

Similarly I don't know if there are cases where Canada has refused entry to a US citizen that isn't a wanted criminal (suspect) in the US or guilty of something that Canada themselves object to.

We could certainly imagine all sorts of extreme scenarios, such as the entire family secretly being spies for China, and the US tipping off the Canadians, but neither country being able to publicly reveal this, but -- assuming that these children are just innocent victims of an abusive bureaucracy -- I'd like to see them launch a case in the US.

There may be many good reasons for them not doing so, but I don't think that their ability to travel to Canada (from Europe, for example) nor their ability to travel by land between the US and Canada, is the limiting factor.

link
ehasbrouck 2717 days ago
"I'd be interested to read an article about people being prevented from flying between Canada and Europe because of the US government."

Here you go:

https://papersplease.org/wp/2011/02/16/british-man-marooned-...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2011/03/18/canadian-denied-passa...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2011/05/25/us-intervenes-to-bloc...

None of these people were scheduled to fly to, from, or via the USA.

There have also been people denied passage on fligths between other countries, merely becuase they were scheduled to pass through US airspace without landing. But that's a different issue from the incidents reported in the links above:

https://papersplease.org/wp/2009/05/16/air-france-passenger-...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2010/06/07/another-paris-mexico-...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2011/07/25/mexico-barcelona-flig...

link