[btrettel]

I think slower flight might be best for long distance travel. Something like an airship. I don't know much about the technology, but my naive view is that the technology is undervalued. An airship has VTOL, is quieter, is more spacious, produces less carbon emissions, etc.

[ghaff]

Weather issues are one problem for airships. Actual ships are an option for transatlantic routes but there is basically one limited alternative for that. People basically want cheap and fast. Once you get beyond driving that mostly means subsonic planes.

[btrettel]

Thanks, I was not aware of the weather problems.

I'd be willing to take a slower option and I think at least some others would too as long as it's less cramped.

[ghaff]

International airline travel can already be pretty much as roomy as a mass of people are willing to pay for on a route. And shifting to a slower mode of transportation that's equally or even more roomy tends to carry a big premium as well. Taking the train or a ship on a multi-thousand mile trip costs more than certainly economy flying does. You can generally travel in comfort. You just need to pay for it.

[mikepurvis]

My wife and I took our then-infant daughter on a 2800km train ride about five years ago (Toronto to Saskatoon by VIA Rail). We paid extra to have sleeping berths with meals included vs regular seats, but overall it was pretty expensive and slow:

- You spend a lot (would estimate 30%+) of time waiting on sidings for freight trains to pass in the other direction because there's only a single track owned by the freight company, so their trains get priority.

- There's no back up plan, and only a few trips a week. Our train happened to run on time, but I had a family member try to take it a few years later and ended up having to cancel for refund and fly instead because the train was running 24h late and she needed to be home for something.

- It's priced and advertised as an "experience" comparable to going on a cruise. They serve you nice food, but obviously the cost of all that service is baked into the ticket— no one is pretending that you'd choose this option just to get to your destination.

- We got our fares for around 60% off, but it was still $450 per adult, I think, which was a lot more than our return flights were (we could afford neither the time nor money required to take the train in both directions). Getting these fares required weeks of monitoring for VIA's "discount Tuesday" promotions and then building our travel plans around the specific dates offered.

- No wifi or even cell reception for most of the route. The northern Ontario section of the route is extremely remote and not at all scenic— just mile after mile of unremarkable forest.

Maybe there's room for an option that's slightly more comfortable and slightly slower, if that's what an airship would offer? But as far as the train goes, it's lots more comfortable and many times slower, but there's just no way to make the cost comparable to flying when you need to pay for all those hours of staff and equipment.

[wallace_f]

Air ships were already obsolete before the Hindenberg disaster. Being by over twice as much the most expensive mode to travel in, having to take a trickle shower, share a dry toilet with 20 other people, and sleep in a bunkbed (all to save weight) is an extremely lousy deal.

Edit: Why are people downvoting this? I just googled it and confirmed what I posted here.

[TylerE]

An airship has far lower payload capacity and is SLOW. VERY SLOW. A car on the interstate would outpace one.

[TeMPOraL]

Could we at least use them for bulk transport of non-perishable goods? Container ships are slow too, and we're fine with that.

[TylerE]

No. The payload fraction is just too poor. For instance, the Hindenburg, which was the largest, most advanced Zeppelin ever built, had a payload capacity of only 21,000lbs. That's using hydrogen, which, is, obviously not real safe. If it had used helium instead, it would have had a payload capacity of -34,000lbs.

For comparison, a single 40' standard container has a maximum load of 57,000lbs, and a large cargo ship can carry thousands of those.

[FlyMoreRockets]

What was the mass of the Hindenburg without the lift gas? Doubtless modern composites could significantly reduce that mass, which could go directly into increased payload.

Alternatively, an airship of the same mass of the Hindenburg could be made significantly larger, and since payload scales with the lifting gas volume, payload would also increase.

Oh, and throw the Hindenburg's aluminum piano over the side.

I note with interest that you say the Hindenburg would have had a greater payload with Helium rather than Hydrogen. Why do you say that?

[TylerE]

> I note with interest that you say the Hindenburg would have had a greater payload with Helium rather than Hydrogen. Why do you say that?

I did not say that. Note the negative.

[FlyMoreRockets]

I saw the dash, but didn't understand it. If the payload with hydrogen is 21,000lbs and it is -34,000 pounds with helium, then it seems like it wouldn't even get off the ground. But clearly, it did get off the ground with passengers using helium, it was designed to fly with helium.

[btrettel]

Thanks for posting. These are interesting figures that show airships are not as good as I suspected.