[jaziek]

>Whether you support Brexit or not says nothing about whether you support immigration rights, free trade and regulation and those political issues say nothing about what your values are as a person.

Yes it does. This "my political views say nothing about me as a person" statement really aggravates me. It doesn't make any sense. Of course your views are part of you as a person.

More specifically to the matter at hand, how does your vote on an issue directly related to immigration, trade, and regulation have nothing to do with those issues?

[spuz]

> Yes they do, and yes it does.

Supporting brexit simply means you do not want the UK to be in the EU. It doesn't mean that you don't support any of the EU's policies. You might prefer more immigration from non-EU countries for example but still support Brexit. Similarly, you might think that the regulation that we get from the EU is a good thing - you just don't agree with the system of governance that the EU is built on.

> More specifically to the matter at hand, how does your vote on an issue directly related to immigration, trade, and regulation have nothing to do with those issues

Your vote on those issues of course does reflect your views on those issues. I am referring to values beyond those we are argue about in politics such as a value of fairness, justice, community, family etc. I.e there is a vast swathe of issues on which most people in society actually agree - violence is bad, dishonesty is bad, crime is probably bad etc but that large proportion of values are never shared because they are obvious. I want to bring them up because otherwise it's all to easy to project opposing values on all possible spectra onto those on which we disagree with only a few small issues.

[barrkel]

Sure, positions on fairness and justice are shared. As are the requirement to breath air, drink water, eat food, and many other commonalities that are universally shared with pretty much all the people of world. Those positions are just not very relevant. Why have nation states at all, since we all share these values?

The small issues at hand are core to the role and conception of the nation state, and how it is changing in a globalizing and regionalizing world. Chris Grey wrote a very good article on this yesterday: http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/01/britain-is-o...

[jaziek]

>fairness, justice, community, family etc.

How are these different issues to the ones that are voted on?

I fail to see any separation. Immigration is directly related to community, regulation to justice etc...

I think you're far too quick to make assumptions about what the baseline of shared values actually is. Yes, it may be easy for us to say that most people think violence, dishonesty or crime are bad things, but absolutely everyone on earth has a different definition for each of those, and differing ideas about to whom or what such definitions should apply.

At a certain point, there are hard lines in the sand, across which it is impossible to find common ground. For me, and many others, this issue is one of those.