[gaius]

Once you have hash joins, shards start to look awfully restrictive compared to partitions... MySQL (et al, I don't know about FlockDB) can freely shard because they're not losing functionality they don't have in the first place.

Maybe I'm not a good example because I've mainly worked in financial services, but nearly every Oracle project I've worked on has been wildly profitable, and most have been at the level (in terms of transactional throughput, and in terms of features that were cheaper to buy than build) at which there are only really two choices, Oracle or DB2.

[benblack]

Vendors highly optimize for your case, and you find that their solutions work for you. Not a surprise. Different constraints and different requirements produce different solutions. Nobody is saying you are doing financial services storage and processing wrong. Why are you so insistent experts in a totally different field are doing their jobs wrong?

[gaius]

I'm not. I'm insistent that the assertions that RDBMSs don't scale and that RDBMSs are too inflexible for rapid, iterative development are false.

[benblack]

Absent a metric for "scale" it isn't false, it's meaningless. Here is some context to help you distinguish how things work for online services as opposed to financials:

As you are not printing money, you care about cost efficiency. This means you are biased towards using white box hardware, and having as little variation as possible. In the financial world, they use name brand hardware and whatever configurations make sense for a specific application, which is good, because Oracle and IBM are not interested in supporting their products on white boxes. You're Twitter, you have 15 billion edges in this database. Each one is conservatively 24 bytes. 360GB of raw data. Everything you do depends on that data being always available, extremely tolerant of component failures, accessible with very low latency, so assume it all has to be in RAM on a bunch of machines. The Oracle answer is a cluster of fat, named-brand servers (totally unlike all the rest of your hardware) with a dedicated interconnect, a lot of license fees, support contracts, and dedicated DBAs (plural, since you'll need them on-call). Special hardware, headcount, license and support costs. Hit a bug? Call Oracle. Need a feature? Call Oracle. Wish that precious headcount was filled by engineers writing code instead of DBAs carrying pagers? Too bad.

When scaling includes having to fit into the same model as all the rest of your infrastructure, and that model is not the Oracle model, then it becomes a bit clearer why engineers might dismiss Oracle. They are left with those inferior options like MySQL, which you've already agreed has various scaling issues (though Facebook somehow manages). So, they invest a few months of a few engineers and they have a purpose built system that does what they need, fits the rest of their model, for which they have the source, and for which the maintenance costs are likely to be far lower.

Like I said in the article: absent a specific problem for the business, SQL vs NoSQL is just noise. Something like FlockDB is far simpler and cheaper than throwing Oracle at the problem. That's not a technical argument, it's a business argument. If you want to argue that the big players don't know how to run their businesses, I will not try to stop you.

[gaius]

You can, right now, go to Dell's website and buy, off the shelf, a server with 144G of RAM. Stick Red Hat on it and Oracle considers it fully supported. The days of "vanity" brands that you'd stick behind a glass partition and take your investors on a tour of the datacentre to see are loooong gone.

And the reason you need devs and DBAs to be separate isn't one of different skills at all, both speak PL/SQL fluently. It's just if the regulator of your industry requires that the code be developed and deployed by different people. If not, it's normal for the two camps to have significant overlap.

[benblack]

Yes, you can go buy name-brand hardware (Dell, IBM, Sun, HP) in a special configuration not used anywhere else in your infrastructure and install an OS on it which you don't run on any other system, all just so you can have the honor of paying Oracle. That was my point.

[gaius]

Eh? Dell is very much not a brand like IBM or HP, they are pioneers in the field of cheap generic hardware. That's why I chose them as an example! And Red Hat is hardly an obscure OS these days either... And Oracle runs happily on Windows or many other common OSs too...