[fouric]

The United States could certainly be less war-happy, in my opinion, but what happens if some group decides to declare war on another, or commit atrocities, and absolutely refuses to negotiate? Or what if negotiations take months or years, and more human lives are lost in that time than would be through war?

I'm not saying that most or even a significant fraction of the US's wars up until this point have been justified, but professor Kuipers seems to be of the opinion that violence should never be used to settle international conflicts.

[DenisM]

>what happens if some group decides to declare war on another, or commit atrocities,

We don't have to guess - Ygoslavian war in the 90s was exactly that. Atrocities continued until US&UK dropped on the theater. OTOH there is no shortage of situations where US involvement was the atrocity.

So maybe it's not the military per se, it's how you use it.

[hintymad]

Exactly! I don't quite get the sentiment that military is nothing but evil, either. Hasn't history taught us enough? How many peace-loving civilization got destroyed by those who had no interests in producing but looting? Look at Song Dynasty. Look at Ming Dynasty. Look at European cities when Mongolian invaded. Hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered. Hundreds of cities were looted, burnt down, and destroyed. Millions of people were slaved for generations. Trade were banned. Civilization was set back by hundreds of years.

Americans and Europeans may have been in peace and prosperity for so long and got so comfortable that they started to hate everything their forbears have built and fought for. I'm not sure about you guys, but I certainly cherish the literature, the math, the science, then engineering, the philosophy, the political systems (not that they are flawless, but it took us a long time to get where we are), and more.

What a shame.