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by squirrelicus 2734 days ago
.... cont from previous

> Laws, ethics, and morality are human/social constructs that are characteristics of our society.

Uncontrovertibly true. And I am infinitely grateful for that. We are truly privileged. Almost everybody reading this is, even those in the developing world. History was a lot worse in too many ways for the vast majority of the globe.

> There are no divine, absolute, or deep truths to be found there.

Absolute... Facts are absolutely true or false, so I disagree to the extent that we're talking about facts. I agree to the extent we're talking about opinions, interpretations, and the realm of the subjective.

Divine? Depends on your definition of divine. For me, since I view Christianity in a purely material/temporal context, divine means that which is worth saving above all else. So surely, there exists divinity under this definition. Indeed, the entire West is predicated on the idea that everybody, even the worst of humanity, has divinity within them. Even Nazis deserve a trial before a sentence. Thank God we all believe that. Well, we used to. These days it's common to hear people convicted that Nazis should be punched in the face. That a mere belief deserves violence, no matter if any action is taken on that belief. shudder

As for deep? Hard one to define, but let me try: Let's say... deep is a qualitative relative measurement of literary prowess from which useful abstractions can be drawn out. The Bible is almost unfathomably deep compared to House of Cards, Game of Thrones, and Avengers. Compared to high quality stand-up comedy, the aforementioned texts are so deep the Mariana Trench is jealous.

Truths, that's a tough one. We often use the word "proof" in different contexts. Legal proof is different from mathematical proof, for example -- the former being highly convincing evidence, and the latter being absolutely, 100%, correct. So, for example, is it true that Mercury is closer to the Sun than the Earth right now? Yes. Is that deep? No. Is it true that before you die you will change the lives of thousands of people? Probably. Is that deep? Yes. Is it true that when your ego is defeated your brain, and thus your entire perception of the world will reconfigure itself permanently in a way you cannot control? Yes. Is that deep? Little more is deeper for the invidividual who is defeated, and the Bible will help you understand what happened and help you through it.

> It just defines basic human behavior so society remains civil.

I can't find any way to read this that isn't the assumption that this is kind of... a given. You stand on the shoulders of giants. Be careful not to treat civilization so flippantly. It wasn't so long ago that the basic human behavior we take for granted did not exist. And it may not in the future, objectivity and science notwithstanding. Hell is a long way down.

Indeed, Auschwitz and the Gulags and Maoist China show us that "basic human behavior" wasn't a given merely 80 years ago. And it might not be tomorrow.

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And now, we return to the beginning.

> Could you list some of the truths of being human? ...

You asked. This may be pandora's box for the reader. If so, I hope you're ready.

Without an aim, you will find it exhausting to do a good job at anything because your mind will be pulling you in a thousand different directions at once. Humans without an aim are more vulnerable to anxiety and depression and suicide.

You are not a different kind of human from the Nazi citizens, soldiers, or leaders. You're not a different kind of human from the slave abusers. You're not a different kind of human from the Israelites who developed the oral tradition of the Torah. All the same neurochemical processes govern you that governed them. Let that one soak in. There's nothing about your meat that would prevent you from being a Nazi cooperator or perpetrator. The largest, and probably only reason you're not, is the context of the environment you were born into.

Jealousy is one of the strongest driving forces of the human brain. Almost everything you do is because of your reaction to a shrinking feeling you get when you observe those who are more competant or lucky than you having better lives than you. Be grateful most of the time your reaction is to try harder. That bit gets flipped fast, and it's hard to notice. Before you know it, you're Cain shouting "Why isn't my work good enough!?" and desiring revenge.

> Also give some examples of psychological realities of the human brain?

When you are defeated, let's say your boss fired you when you screwed up and you spent three months unemployed while you try to regain your ego and find a new job. Your amygdala grows. It will never shrink again, if you're healthy. You will forever fear the world more, and you will release stress-related adrenaline more often which will trigger fear and hatred of those you suspect are trying to hurt you again, even if they're not, because...

Your perception is dependent on your predictions. Most of what you think you see, hear, think, and read is not even close to an accurate depiction of reality. Additionally...

Most of your actions are dependent on your predictions. You predict the cup is in your hand, and your brain fills in the details without you even thinking about. Almost everything you do has abritrarily close to zero thought behind it. Which sucks because...

Humans are hard wired to be worried about everything all the time. We have to be ready, at all times, to know what to do when we don't know what to do. Prediction is the force that calms this urge. The more the world follows your predictions, the calmer you will be. When the world doesn't conform to your predictions, you'll ignore it or rationalize it, or find yourself in the pit of anxiety trying to reconfigure your deepest predictions about the world. You cannot escape this. Worse,

Enough about prediction, how about this: You are not, nor ever were, nor ever will be neurochamically capable of ethically evaluating almost every action you take. You will summarize and abstract. Without an abstract aim and system to guide you, you will fall short in your own estimation eternally as your brain randomly assigns actions prescribed by your previous experience.

Given the HN demographics, most people are not as smart as you, and do all of this more poorly than you do. But they think they're at least as good, if not moreso, than you are at this.

Okay, religion time: You're an imperfect human being. But you almost never say out loud, even in private, when you fall short of your own view of morality. The process of saying your own screw-ups out loud, however, is the most powerful psychological tool for (a) recognizing that there's something wrong, and (b) fixing it. Practicing religious folk that pray are light-years ahead in moral self-improvement because they are constantly saying out loud [to the ether, to God, it doesn't matter] how they fucked up. And then they ask [themselves, God, it doesn't matter] how to fix it. And the "voice of God" or "spiritual confirmation" that speaks to them is [almost certainly their own mind] helping them discover how to fix it. But your brain will usually not actually react to you trying to fix anything until you say it and want to actually know the answer for how to fix it. This is Repentance, back to front.

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I hope that helped you understand my perspective. Thanks for reading.

Here's a quick parting thought: Why is every society religious? Why did religious societies out-compete non-religious societies. I submit to you, because religious societies are more "fit" than non-religious societies. The reasons may be complex, but they are real, and true.

The start of my journey was this question: "What if I'm missing out on something huge, something that a deep, animal part of my brain needs, something that is whatever religion provides; but it can't tell me that's what it needs because that part of the brain doesn't communicate in words..."

2 comments

I read both of your comments, this has been an interesting discussion and I'll keep these views in mind as I explore the topic some more.

I'm trying to craft an objective reality/worldview filled with objective truths. I need an accurate model to work off of so I don't make any errors in judgement. My main goal is to further mankind in the most significant matter possible, like you said, we're standing on the shoulders of giants.

Although, fame and money is not what I seek, I only wish contribute immensely in terms of work. I'm not trying to create something small like a social media site for pets, I'm trying to aim for innovations like the discovery and harnessing of electricity.

Good luck. It's a tough world. You know, Christ was born under an order for his death with soldiers knocking on doors killing babies, born into a rickety wooden construct for holding animal feed, full of snot and spit. Even the greatest man is born into a world of threats of death, disease, and eventual death. We all share this burden together. And whether Christ was real doesn't actually matter. Almost every historical figure is a legend, an abstraction, and history shows us who we are nonetheless.

Godspeed on your journey my friend.

Thanks for taking the time to form your perspective in words. It was an interesting read and one which I (at first pass) agree with.
Absolutely!

You know, there's a lot of videos of Jordan Peterson being randomly harassed in public by people with a political agenda trying to make him look bad. Even though it's an obvious bad faith harassment situation, he takes the time to answer the questions anyway. Likely because he has full knowledge that even if his answer isn't for the "interviewer", many others will see it too.

I've tried to learn from his example.

https://youtu.be/O-nvNAcvUPE