[krylon]

I vaguely recall that this was discussed here on HN a while ago and somebody who had actually tried to buy the necessary license reported that Oracle would not sell them the license; IIRC, the sales person told them to "just use it, we don't care", or something along those lines.

Which is very problematic, of course, without something in writing, and given Oracle's reputation.

[amyjess]

If you live in a one-party state, secretly record them and then if Oracle threatens to sue, show them the recording and remind them of promissory estoppel.

(IANAL!)

[torstenvl]

Not really promissory estoppel, which can enforce a promise if you detrimentally relied on it. It's not really to your detriment to use the product for free, so it's not a perfect fit (unless maybe your company hired someone to administer the VMs, specifically based on his VirtualBox experience?).

Some other possibilities would be the parol evidence rule (verbal exchanges between the contracting parties and their effect on contract interpretation) and possibly laches (no equitable remedy for folks who know about an infringement on their rights and do nothing about it... but money damages isn't an equity claim).

(IAAL but I don't practice in this area, so same grain of salt applies)

[MaupitiBlue]

I think amyjess is right.

From the Restatement Second:

§ 90. Promise Reasonably Inducing Action or Forbearance

(1) A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise. The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires.

If Oracle says "go ahead and use it" and then sues you for having used it, they lose. If they sue you to stop using it going forward, they win.

[torstenvl]

I can understand how you'd think that, reading the text of the rule in the Restatement. However, at common law - and as shown in the examples if you'd keep reading - there has to be some detrimental reliance. Being able to use a product isn't in an of itself to your detriment. However, hiring someone based on that understanding might be.

A, knowing that B is going to college, promises B that A will give him $ 5,000 on completion of his course. B goes to college, and borrows and [[[spends more than $ 5,000 for college expenses.]]] When he has nearly completed his course, A notifies him of an intention to revoke the promise. A's promise is binding and B is entitled to payment on completion of the course without regard to whether his performance was “bargained for” under § 71.

(detrimental reliance in triple square brackets)

I have a hard time imagining a case being granted summary judgment for the defendant just because Oracle's customer sales rep told him "we don't really care."

In all honesty, the legal issue is more likely to be whether the person on the phone had apparent authority to grant a license. Even if a promissory estoppel theory would work, the person speaking to you would still have to be in some position (or appear to be in some position) to bind Oracle to a promise he/she made.

[amyjess]

...and this is why I'm not a lawyer.

Thank you!

[krylon]

In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party.

Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this. They really seem not to care. But they could change their mind tomorrow.

[amyjess]

> In Germany, it is illegal to record phone conversations without the consents of the other party.

Hence, "If you live in a one-party state."

> Also, I don't think Oracle is going to sue over something like this.

Check the other comments in the thread. People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue.

[krylon]

> Hence, "If you live in a one-party state."

I am sorry. In Germany, there is no such thing as a "one-party state". :-|

> People are reporting that Oracle is taking IP addresses of people who access the extensions site and if the IP address belongs to a company, they contact the company and threaten to sue.

Thank you for pointing this out. I stand corrected.

[giancarlostoro]

That's awkward as hell. It's sad that their offering is the only decent one out there (for my needs and with that UX) that's at least got open source options. I hope VirtualPC from Microsoft becomes cross-platform and open sourced, or at least some sort of new VM software from Microsoft, since they seem to be doing a better job at offering up MIT licensed projects lately.

[dhimes]

I wouldn't even mind shelling out $50 for a license if I needed one, but they won't let me. It takes $5000, because they require a purchase of 100 or more at a time. It feels like they don't want to spend time on small stuff, and really don't care.

[ikeboy]

Can also buy a socket license for 1k, or buy from resellers with lower MOQ: e.g. https://m.cdw.com/product/oracle-vm-virtualbox-enterprise-li...

[user5994461]

VMWare does the same thing. No idea why you'd think Oracle is the only competitor.

[bradstewart]

Indeed. I find VMWare Workstation to be a significantly better product as well. I hate using VirtualBox.

[JshWright]

This was my experience 6-7 years ago (shortly after the Sun/Oracle acquisition). Couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about how to license it (despite wanting to roll out many thousands of seats using it in a commercial product).