[potatolicious]

> "One other choice is to move East to Toronto."

Well, sure, lesser of two evils anyways. The choices are: unemployment in an expensive city like Vancouver, or crappy employment in a cheaper city like Toronto, or slave your ass away and be abused at a media/gaming company in a city like Montreal.

Or live in the desolate tundra that is Ottawa where lucrative but mind-numbingly boring government contracts abound.

No wonder Canada's software scene is completely dead.

I grew up in Vancouver, moved east for school, and looked on both coasts for jobs near graduation. Vancouver had few jobs, and your best bet was EA (no thanks!). Toronto had more interest in entry-level engineers, but upon closer inspection most were monkey jobs pounding out Java boilerplate for some bank or other gargantuan legacy enterprise system.

There were a few companies I encountered that did honestly really cool stuff... they were also tiny and unstable (financially) as hell. Generally a poor idea to work the only good job in town.

I loved living in both Vancouver and Toronto, and honestly wish I can have that lifestyle back (the poverty levels I see in the US is shocking and appalling to my over-protected Canadian ass). But damn, slaving at some enterprise Java-factory for half the pay is a pretty high price to pay.

[fiveo]

Yeah, EA Vancouver/Burnaby is one of those "satellite" branches: when there's a problem, they get to experience first-hand on what downsizing means. Wouldn't count as the best bet since aside from OT there are big possibilities of massive lay-offs.

I'd take entry-level Java boilerplate code at any given day than a Microsoft boilerplate code (which is what Vancouver has to offer these days, especially with the government around here). Vancouver salary is also between 20-30% less than to that in Toronto.

And lately, since all the fun lies in Asia, I can't wait to go there. Vancouver becomes boring (and gray) to me. Especially with the 10 months of rain.

[jbarham]

> the poverty levels I see in the US is shocking and appalling to my over-protected Canadian ass

I daresay American tourists find the poverty levels in Vancouver's downtown eastside just as shocking and appalling.

[potatolicious]

'Tis true. The poverty and general situation on the eastside is pretty saddening.

It is, however, nothing compared to Seattle where I am now. Where in Vancouver the violence and poverty seem to be confined to a small-ish neighborhood, in Seattle it's rampant and everywhere.

Poverty is nothing new - I've seen it in every place I've ever lived. It is however somewhat shocking to see homelessness overrun an entire city - there's not a single spot in downtown Seattle (or hell, anywhere within city limits) where you can't find vagrants or street kids.

This isn't a value judgment on homelessness in general, but rather an observation that unlike some cities where the worst of the poverty is geographically distinct, here in Seattle it's just... everywhere.

Maybe it's for the better - the harder it is for you to avert your eyes, the more compelled you may be to fix it.

Well, scratch that, the city of Seattle just cut even more funding to homeless social services.