[shitgoose]

All correct about Communism at its peak, but by the time Gorbachev came to power it was already in severe decline, unable to use force. Gorby wanted to modernize it, he had no intention to destroy it. Things went beyond his control quickly. For old communists he was a traitor, for new generation he wasn't moving fast enough. He picked the worst of both worlds. He saw himself as a messiah, for no good reason. At first he sounded cool are refreshing, but then people quickly got tired of him, of endless indecisiveness. They wanted real change, which Gorby never delivered.

[java-man]

I would mostly disagree with this. The USSR did use force around that time. The thing people often do not take into account is that the power structures or societies are not monolithic. There are fractions, groups, competing, or allied. Just like here in the US we have religious right, military industrial groups, banking groups which do compete for power like rats in a can.

Similarly, in the USSR in 80s and 90s, there were different groups. In 1956 and 1968 the hardliners held majority, so no socialism with a human face for you. But 1991, thanks in some large part to Gorbachev, things were different.

Yes, he was a slow moving, verbose demagogue, and I hated him for that. But one has to admire that he held back enormous mass of the Soviet machine build around Communist Party, KGB, and the military, armed with thousand of nuclear weapons. One wrong step and the world might have been different today, with a Geiger counters drumming a happy beat.

I think we ought to give him credit for it. We owe it to him.

[shitgoose]

I don't remember force being used during Gorbachev time. 1st putsch fizzled, because there was no support for violence in any part of society. While, on the other hand, during Eltsyn time, when the whole thing fell apart, oh buy, was there a violence! Primarily former republics, but also Russia. But that was after communists lost power.

I think we overestimate the ability of elites to steer. They mostly react in a slow and inefficient way to changing environment. Remember fall of the Berlin wall? KGB and others were in state of shock. They were impotent. I am not saying that one moron couldn't have pressed red button, but there is always risk of that.

[java-man]

On April 9, 1989, the army, together with MVD units, massacred about 190 demonstrators in Tbilisi in Georgia. The next major crisis occurred in Azerbaijan, when the Soviet army forcibly entered Baku on January 19–20, 1990, removing the rebellious republic government and allegedly killing hundreds of civilians in the process. On January 13, 1991 Soviet forces stormed the State Radio and Television Building and the television retranslation tower in Vilnius, Lithuania, both under opposition control, killing 14 people and injuring 700.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Armed_Forces