[Verdex_3]

Division of labor is a thing. I'm good at transforming customer interactions into requirements and then transforming requirements into working code.

I'm not good with dealing with issues with a deployed product while I should be busy living my life.

[ownagefool]

So then you should probably only work on products that don't require out of hours support, or where the team is willing and able to hire people in another time zone.

Instead, you think some ops guy should do it?

[u801e]

Perhaps the company should invest the resources into hiring people to provide out of hours support rather than expecting their employees to be on call 24/7 for certain weeks of the month. Otherwise, why shouldthe company bother offering out of hours support if it's not willing to pay for it.

[ownagefool]

Indeed, companys should pay what's required, but it's not really the point I'm making.

End of the day, an Ops guy who is not part of the development team can't really do all that much when a bad commit brings down the system. Sure, we can take a stab in the dark and roll-back, but we don't know if that's going to make the problem worse, or we can restart it but that's about the easiest thing in the world to automate.

So, why not get the experts of the system, who rolled out the change, and undertook the quality control, to be part of the team that fixes the outage (irregadless of what time we do it at)? Who is better suited?

[re-actor]

So push the burden onto somebody else? Why aren't they allowed to "be busying living [their] life"?

[Verdex_3]

They should be free to live their life. If it turns out that the company doesn't actually have enough money to hire enough people to perform all of the duties that it needs to continue to exist, then that company should cease to exist. Which is desirable over the alternative of having rich company owners externalize their failure to run their company adequately by stealing the lives of employees who don't have the ability to say no to an unethical violation of their right to live their life.

[jasonlotito]

> They should be free to live their life.

How does an on-call rotation prevent this?

[MereInterest]

Depends entirely on the on-call rotation. I've been on one where you could go the entire week without being paged, and where most of the pages did not require an immediate response. That did not prevent me from living my life. I've been on another where there were several pages every day, at all hours of the day, each of which could take anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. That one certainly prevented me from living my life.

[illiac_1962]

Spot on. I ended up with a new boss at a new company through an acquisition. He gently asked about me getting on the on-call rotation. Which meant work 24/7 because the company didn't know how to manage technology. I enthusiastically agreed and gave him a big spiel about how this is expected, yada, I'm a team player, yada. I fucking parachuted immediately and gave one day notice.