[antidesitter]

> We should judge approaches to AI based on their results

That's why the article discusses examples where currently popular approaches fail.

> not on their conformance to a (vague, incorrect, untested) model of human cognition.

What model of human cognition is "incorrect"? And is it the one presented by Marcus, or a strawman?

> But if you want to genuinely influence the direction of the field, you have to lead by example and produce novel/interesting research results

Are you claiming Marcus has produced no interesting research results?

> not by kvetching in The New Yorker that your favorite approach is not getting enough attention

Why use the term "kvetching"? I'm curious.

[shafte]

> What model of human cognition are you claiming is "incorrect"? And is it the one presented by Marcus, or are you strawmanning?

The model of human cognition I'm referring to is the hybrid connectionist-symbolic one that Marcus is well known for advocating (are YOU strawmanning? lol). I'm criticizing it for being more a theoretical model than one grounded in the physical realities of the brain, which of course no one really understands. Proposing a research program on that basis requires a high burden of proof.

> Are you claiming Marcus has produced no interesting research results?

Yes I am claiming that, if the benchmark for "interesting" is deep learning.

There are indeed areas where deep learning is limited, and hybrid approaches could be superior. I would argue that there is not even close to enough evidence that a hybrid approach has improved generalizable power.

> Why use the term "kvetching"? I'm curious.

Huh? I guess it's the term my mother would use.

[eli_gottlieb]

>the physical realities of the brain, which of course no one really understands.

No-one in machine learning, yeah, because machine learners mostly don't take neuroscience classes ;-).

[antidesitter]

> The model of human cognition I'm referring to is the hybrid connectionist-symbolic one that Marcus is well known for advocating

> I'm criticizing it for being more a theoretical model than one grounded in the physical realities of the brain, which of course no one really understands

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you claim Marcus' model is "incorrect". On the other, you claim there's insufficient evidence either way. Which is it?

> are YOU strawmanning? lol

Do you know what the term "strawmanning" means? What could I possibly be strawmanning since I was asking for clarification?

> Proposing a research program on that basis requires a high burden of proof.

As opposed to...?

> Yes I am claiming that, if the benchmark for "interesting" is deep learning.

"Deep learning" isn't the correct benchmark since that's what Marcus is critiquing (to some extent) in the first place.

> I would argue that there is not even close to enough evidence that a hybrid approach has improved generalizable power.

Then you'd be wrong. Here's a good place to start your research:

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/331/6022/1279

> Huh? I guess it's the term my mother would use.

Your mother taught you to describe scientific debate as "kvetching"? That's disappointing.

[dang]

Can you please stop posting to HN in the flamewar style? You've been doing it a lot. We want thoughtful dicussion here, not gotcha vendettas here.

In particular, your comments have broken this guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[antidesitter]

> Can you please stop posting to HN in the flamewar style? You've been doing it a lot.

Can you clarify? How have I "been doing it a lot"? And how was my comment "in the flamewar style"?

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize.

Which part of the GP's comment do you think I'm unfairly interpreting?

[dang]

Here are other recent cases: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18503013, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18447094, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18378261. That is what we're asking you not to do.

HN threads are supposed to be thoughtful conversation—not cross examinations or verbal boxing matches, let alone setups to make other people look bad.

[antidesitter]

How would you rephrase those comments while retaining their content? Genuine question. Because sometimes I get the impression that simply stating facts is enough to induce knee-jerk flagging.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the second comment you linked to, in particular. What do you find objectionable about it?

I'm also still curious to know which part of the GP's comment you think I'm strawmanning.

[_cs2017_]

> Are you claiming Marcus has produced no interesting research results?

Not the OP, but I'm not familiar with Marcus' contributions. What would you consider his top contributions? Are they all purely theoretical, or is there something that's already been applied in the real world?