[bitrrrate]

A key passage from the article.

"Once Americans began driving Hondas and Toyotas, they discovered that these cars had a lot more going for them than just gas mileage — they broke down infrequently, could last for hundreds of thousands of miles, and were even fun to drive."

If the US sedan makers can't compete then they should deprecate those cars. Why make something that people aren't buying? Cars are too expensive these days to have to pay for frequent maintenance or fit-and-finish issues. Never mind the fact that "American" cars are not as American as they used to be and the Camry isn't distinctively Japanese.

[decebalus1]

> Once Americans began driving Hondas and Toyotas, they discovered that these cars had a lot more going for them than just gas mileage

This resonates with my experience so much I couldn't help but write this. After my previous Japanese car saved my life in an accident, I went ahead and bought the new model, about a decade later.

I am seriously impressed. Things which were premium a while back are now standard. And the look-and-feel of the car, the comfort and driving feel is just amazing. I could go with a bigger more powerful engine but I mean the mileage is hard to beat. And I won't even mention the abundant safety features (which decreased my insurance premium!).

Although I can afford it, I have absolutely no interest in the premium brands.

[virmundi]

The sad thing is that American automakers can't, even if that is they won't, make good cars. I don't get it. Why can't they make a fuel pump that lasts 100k miles? It's obviously possible since Japan does it. What's holding us back? Is the engineers? Is it the labor assembling things? Why can't we compete? Management being stupid and chasing this quarter's numbers above all else?

[ip26]

Totally speculating, but from the outside it seems like stagnation & resistance to change. The Corvette still uses leaf springs. All three of the Big Three hung on to SOHC & other relics for far longer than Japan. I also remember as a shade-tree mechanic, Japanese engines were always precise, intricate, and sharp (suggesting computer design & milling) while the Fords of the same decade were not, and frequently the arrangements were irrational. Rangers needed the intake manifold removed to access the spark plugs. This always suggested to me more casting & hand drawing.

American automakers seem to make some great stuff when they are actually pushing the envelope- the EcoBoost line I hear is very solid, and the aluminum frame in the F150 seems to be doing great (notice: lots of FUD when it launched, silence ever since). The Volt & Bolt have had many great things said about them.

Whether it's conservative engineers, or tight purses, or unrealistic schedules, or even just myopic American Exceptionalism, I do not know.

[stevehawk]

Corvette uses a tranverse leaf spring, which isn't the same as most people expect. Chevy does it because it works well (it's a top handling car, held the lap record at Nürburgring for a while) and allows for extra cargo space in the rear.

[lazulicurio]

IMO it's a combination of multiple factors. Chasing short term profits definitely plays a role, but there are other cultural factors. An adversarial relationship with labor[1]. Over-reliance on inspection processes to catch production issues. Poor engineering culture that focuses on individual issues as they occur instead of taking a systems-level view. Over-reliance on metrics and KPIs. Performance review criteria that incentivize ignoring or under-reporting issues[2].

Also note that fuel pumps may not be the best example. American manufacturing of mechanical components has gotten a lot better over the past couple of decades. But electronic components are the new opportunity to repeat the mistakes of the pasts.

[1] Watch https://youtu.be/qg8bbFwZLMA?t=1760 through about 44:20, which is an decent overview (although the explanation of Kaizen focuses too much on efficiency). Compare the description of the Japanese relationship with labor to how labor is usually treated in the US. Also notice from 36:40 on how much focus is put on technology versus process (although that may be forgiven since it is a TV show).

[2] For example, in theory you may say your employees have the authority to stop production if they notice an issue. But if the line workers are graded on how many parts they produce, and the engineers are graded on how much downtime there is, nobody is going to report anything.

[WorldMaker]

The US stock market? How do you plan for purchase horizons of ten to fifteen years and very little maintenance operations in that window, when your shareholders only care about what you did for them for a quarter of a year at a time?

[twblalock]

It's funny, most of the Japanese sedans that sell well in America do not sell well in Japan, and some of them are not even available to buy there. They were designed for the American market.

Japanese cars became bestsellers because the Japanese automakers started making better American-style sedans than the American automakers.

[WorldMaker]

I think the better question is what's so wrong with the SUV/Truck market that they don't have to compete on TCO? That they still rake in so much in year over year maintenance costs? That the purchase horizon for most SUV/Truck owners seems to be ~4-5 years versus the ~10-15 year lifetimes that sedan owners demand/expect?

Isn't doubling down on the higher profit margins of SUV/Trucks an admittance that GM and Ford (and their more powerful shareholders) can't see far enough past the short term to compete in the sedan market? What happens if a correction happens in the SUV/Truck market that the time horizon starts to reflect sedans (again)?

[ip26]

I think the better question is what's so wrong with the SUV/Truck market that they don't have to compete on TCO?

The chicken tax, as discussed elsewhere in this thread. 25% tariff on imported trucks means domestic trucks have almost no foreign competition.

The one place they do, the compact/mid-size market, is totally dominated by the Tacoma (which sidesteps the chicken tax with domestic assembly), which is coincidentally famous for being an exceptionally reliable truck...

[twblalock]

> What happens if a correction happens in the SUV/Truck market that the time horizon starts to reflect sedans (again)?

I guess GM and Ford would just start making sedans again?

They could switch back. A lot of the crossovers are built on lifted sedan platforms anyway.