[everdev]

I agree that the message is beautiful. I do have reservations however about gurus, in that the ones I'm aware of tend to live in isolated places where they are worshiped. I feel like it's easy to love and support others when you have peace, quiet, love and support in abundance around you. I'd like to see how these individuals operate in higher stress situations and if they've really perfected the art of love or if it's more a product of their circumstances.

[taneq]

All you need in order to be happy is to be treated like a minor demigod by all around you. Sounds legit.

My favourite example of this (albeit not one that's always been at peace) is the Dalai Lama. Dude goes around talking about love and acceptance and whatnot, which is great and he seems like a great guy, but his experience as someone with an international organisation dedicated to looking after him is maybe not 100% relevant to the life of some random pleb in a Western country.

[jonnybgood]

Curious. Is it avoidable? If you’re trying to teach people to be better and happier through a spiritual context, and they feel they are better and happier, how do you avoid being seen as someone divinely inspired?

I don’t think the Dalai Lama is a great example. He doesn’t do it out of choice but out of duty. It’s what a Dalai Lama is expected to do. They are believed to be the reincarnation of an enlightened person who represents compassion. He’s also the head of the exiled Tibetan state, so he probably will have people looking after him whether he likes it or not.

[maxxxxx]

Agreed. A lot of famous gurus are just very charismatic people that live a very nice life and don't really have to deal with the drudgeries of the life most regular people live. When you look under the cover a lot of them are abusive and really not nice people.

I think there are only very few people that are really spiritually enlightened and they are not necessarily the famous gurus.

I know nothing about Ram Dad's but when I was more involved in yoga I saw some very shady behavior of public gurus.

[clay_the_ripper]

A good friend of mine went to India to sit with a guru. He made them meditate underneath a highway overpass in the “slums” for days on end. His message was basically meditation isn’t about putting on pretty music and sitting by a waterfall. Anyone can meditate at a 5 star resort spa. It’s when life hits you in the face that you need to be able to find inner peace, no matter what is going on around you.

[jamesrcole]

I don't see anything wrong with meditating in pleasant circumstances, however.

[eludwig]

I agree with you, but I don't necessarily see a conflict between someone "teaching" me (what a guru basically is: a teacher, in a way) and other facets of their personality.

I've had many teachers that were superb at imparting their lessons while living with the foibles and flaws of being real people. You take what you need from the teacher and move on.

An example in popular culture: someone like Bill Cosby, who I am sure influenced countless people to be better people. Well, it turned out that he had major problems (to put it mildly!). Does that negate the "lessons" that he imparted in another aspect of his life? I would argue no.

I know you aren't negating this argument in your post, but I just wanted to say this and chose your post to glom onto! :)

[maxxxxx]

With self help, spiritual and health people I have decided only to listen to people who live their own teachings. I have seen famous yoga teachers talk about the benefits of yoga while popping large amounts of Ibuprofen daily because their practice injured them.

Same for some gurus who outwardly are serene and friendly people but their ashram is a dictatorship that terrorizes and manipulates people. There is also a lot of sexual abuse going on. Ram Dass himself did questionable things.

I think bad behavior negates the teachings or at least diminishes them by a lot. How am I supposed to know something works if it doesn't work for the teacher?

Unfortunately there are only a few authentic gurus and teachers.

[madmax96]

“There is a false saying: “How can someone who can’t save himself save others?” Supposing I have the key to your chains, why should your lock and my lock be the same?”

- Nietzsche

[filoeleven]

There’s a recorded conversation between Ram Dass and Terence McKenna during which Ram Dass says, “My life is my message,” and McKemma replies, “My message is my message, my life is a mess!”

[refset]

That conversation is absolutely brilliant and, in combination with the Going Home documentary, is what got me probing deeper into Ram Dass' message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ih4Fg6P730

[josephcooney]

funnily enough Ram Das has a great quote on this - something like "If you think you're enlightened go and spend some time with your family".