[xtrapolate]

> "A teacher (also called a school teacher or, in some contexts, an educator) is a person who helps others to acquire knowledge, competences or values."

The target audience is a crucial part of the feedback loop. Removing the students from the equation sounds counter intuitive. What are the proposed alternative metrics? Who delivers the feedback? And what is the feedback based on, if not on the direct opinions of the people on the receiving end of the service?

[JacKTrocinskI]

I think the main idea here is that student evaluations only make sense if we assume that students are actually interested in acquiring knowledge, competences, or values, however if their main aim in a course is a good grade then their evaluations suddenly hold little value since they will rate "easy" instructors highest.

[dual_basis]

When I was a college instructor I found that when I tried hard - putting a lot of thought into pedagogy, having weekly (open notes) quizzes, assigning challenging but fair homework - I got terrible evaluations, even though the average grade in my class was higher than other teachers who were teaching the same course. When I phoned it in, didn't really try, was very lax with the homework and often made the quizzes take-home, I got excellent reviews but the average grade in the class was worse.

[xtrapolate]

> "When I was a college instructor I found that when I tried hard - putting a lot of thought into pedagogy, having weekly (open notes) quizzes, assigning challenging but fair homework - I got terrible evaluations, even though the average grade in my class was higher than other teachers who were teaching the same course. When I phoned it in, didn't really try, was very lax with the homework and often made the quizzes take-home, I got excellent reviews but the average grade in the class was worse."

It must've been a frustrating experience.

At the same time - you're making a very broad statement here based on a rather personal experience. You went from a certain regimen yielding certain results, to a different regimen yielding different results. There are way too many parameters here to draw conclusions.

[dual_basis]

Sure, but that's the sort of data we have to deal with in this arena. Who's going to run a large randomized trial where students are purposely assigned to different classes (keeping in mind that schedule conflicts already add additional constraints to this which may bias these assignments) and then, furthermore, have the instruction fixed apart from how easy the assignments are? Is it even fair to the students to knowingly assign students to relatively poorer teaching? Clearly it happens all the time, every department has that professor who is known for being a bad teacher yet they still have to assign classes.

In speaking with other grad students this seemed to be a well-known phenomenon, to the point that most other grad students intentionally didn't put much time into their teaching and basked in the positive reviews as a result. It was suggested many times to me that I was spending too much time thinking about my teaching. In my case, the lax teaching was not intentional, I simply was overcommitted that semester and had less time to prepare.

[thatcat]

Did your reviews not ask for justification of the ratings?

[dual_basis]

There are a bunch of ratings 1-10, and then a place to optionally add comments. It's hard to consolidate information from 200+ comments, but, then again, most students do not fill out the comment section anyway.

(In a sense, I guess the whole thing is optional - after all, it is anonymous, and we don't check that every student has filled the whole thing out. It also switched from in-class to an online form during the time I was teaching, and the response rate went down quite a bit as a result, but this was after the situation I mentioned above.)

[bradleyjg]

Isn’t it up to the universities to provide a majority their value in the form of education rather than in the form of a credential?

Not only do such institutions seemed to be concerned about cancerously growing credentialism, they’ve embraced it as a money money making scheme. See e.g. the explosion of terminal masters programs.

You reap what you sow.

[xtrapolate]

> "isn’t it up to the universities to provide a majority their value in the form of education"

I'm not sure how this statement addresses my claims.

How do we measure/quantify the quality of education? I claim that the way students feel about the staff and the institution should be taken into account, rather than dismissed.

[bradleyjg]

You say that the evaluations of students that are only looking for good grades are useless. What colleges are selling and what students are buying, at very high prices, are credentials.

If colleges, and those that work at them, want to be in the education business rather than the credential selling business they ought to take a good long look at where and how they went wrong instead of constantly trying to push the blame onto to people that, again, are just buying what they are selling.