| Oh great a comment pyramid. I am not going to answer this point by point because I will be here for the next few days. > Meanwhile, millions of Linux users have no problems with Steam or Dropbox. But you have unspecified problems, and therefore Linux is bad. I doubt it is Millions tbh. At my last contract I knew 3 other developers that could use Linux in a building of 100s of developers. Even if it does work (most of the time) you get shitty problems like this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/732967/how-to-fix-non-workin... BTW that problem still exists (last time I checked was 18.04). Yes Linux is bad because simple problems that have been solved even on obscure platforms such as Amiga OS have less compatibility problems than Linux based operating systems between versions of the OS. I have an Amiga 1200 running version 3.9 of the OS which was released over 20 years ago probably and I have no problems installing things like web browsers, games, network stacks (Amiga OS didn't have one at the time) and all sorts of other software. > Please don't project. You say A in one sentence and not-A in the next. You don't even seem to agree with yourself. It is called nuance. I am trying to convey an idea. You are trying to be right. The former is being an adult, the latter is childish. > So then use a popular, supported one. Packages for RHEL/CentOS, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, and even SuSe are nearly ubiquitous. If you freely choose to use obscure, forked-3-levels-deep Bob's Linux 2018, don't complain that there's no bespoke package for arbitrary software you want. That's silly. I almost exclusively use Debian based (Ubuntu normally) or Redhat based (CentOS / Fedora). So again you are mis-representing what I was saying. > Not out of context at all. You're blaming the platform instead of the app vendor. Yes it was as I was clearly responding to what I quoted which was about hardware support not software support. This is clearly disingenuous. As we are on the subject now. I am blaming the platform because there is massive amounts of fragmentation caused by lack of standardisation. You will have better luck herding cats. Compare that to something like Windows, iOS, Amiga OS, Android etc. Which have well documented APIs that are supported for years, so applications just tend to work between versions. Also Apple and Microsoft don't throw away a whole desktop environment's code every 5 or 6 years. I remember the Gnome 2 -> 3 mess. I also remember the KDE 3 to 4 mess and I just use XFCE when forced to use a Linux machine now as they don't seem to lose their collective minds every few years. I've been using Linux now for 15 years. I've given up with it. They could fix every complaint I have tomorrow and I won't give a damn, I am done with it. > You're saying that an aerospace engineer can't, in a few seconds, click what appears to be a Start Menu-like menu in the Start Menu place, type "browser" into the box labeled "search", and find "Firefox Web Browser"? I don't believe you. If he can figure out how to make an aircraft fly, and use complicated fluid dynamics modeling software, he can figure out how to launch Firefox. Going from Windows to Plasma is no more complicated than going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and 10--in fact, probably much simpler, considering the enormous UI changes Microsoft made. And it's claims like this that suggest it's you being disingenuous. I sure he could if given the time. However the vast majority of people wanna get on with their life and not have to relearn where to find things in a UI. I have problems using Visual Studio on someone else machine running the same version of Visual Studio because I have the 2005 key bindings enabled, I can struggle along using the newer keybindings, but I am using the interface at about 30-40% of the speed I can normally use it at. Comments like this demonstrates how out of touch Linux users are with the regular computer user. It reminds me of the time when Richard Stallman said on a mailing list he emailed web pages to himself using some cron job or something equally as ridiculous, then on the FSF page he writes a long lecture about the evils JavaScript Minification when he doesn't even use a web browser. > Then you ought to be heaping criticism on Microsoft for Windows 8 and 10. How many times have I seen someone move from Windows 7 to 8/10 and say, "I can't use this UI, it's awful!" Instead you act as if Linux UIs are uniquely problematic. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whataboutery. :rollseyes: PLEASE!! "There are more murders over there so the murders over here don't matter". This is the last time I will respond to you. You have mis-represented me several times now and the number of fallacies present here is hurting my brain. Bye. |
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/732967/how-to-fix-non-workin....
> BTW that problem still exists (last time I checked was 18.04).
Another example of blaming the platform instead of the app vendor. I also suffer from this problem with Dropbox. It's entirely Dropbox's fault for being lazy, ripping out working code, and refusing to fix it despite users begging for years. Dropbox hasn't been a user-focused (at least, non-enterprise-user-focused) company for a long time now. I hope a good alternative becomes available soon.
> Also Apple and Microsoft don't throw away a whole desktop environment's code every 5 or 6 years. I remember the Gnome 2 -> 3 mess. I also remember the KDE 3 to 4 mess and I just use XFCE when forced to use a Linux machine now as they don't seem to lose their collective minds every few years.
I agree with you completely here. The KDE 3-to-4 transition was awful. GNOME is even worse. This is known as the CADT problem. This is why I advocate for software stewardship, doing what's best for the community and the users rather than reinventing the wheel over and over. The TDE project (forked from KDE 3.5) is very interesting and inspiring here.
> I sure he could if given the time. However the vast majority of people wanna get on with their life and not have to relearn where to find things in a UI. I have problems using Visual Studio on someone else machine running the same version of Visual Studio because I have the 2005 key bindings enabled, I can struggle along using the newer keybindings, but I am using the interface at about 30-40% of the speed I can normally use it at.
Of course, I don't like pointless churn either. But here again you're conflating problems: a new version of Visual Studio, made by the same company, and different desktop environments made by completely different groups. I don't think it's reasonable for you to expect KDE or GNOME or whoever to exactly reproduce Windows or any other UI. Even Microsoft isn't being consistent from one version to the next. So, again, you seem to be holding Linux (the wider Linux-based software world) to a different standard than proprietary software. That's not fair.
> Comments like this demonstrates how out of touch Linux users are with the regular computer user. It reminds me of the time when Richard Stallman said on a mailing list he emailed web pages to himself using some cron job or something equally as ridiculous, then on the FSF page he writes a long lecture about the evils JavaScript Minification when he doesn't even use a web browser.
RMS is quite eccentric, yes. I disagree with him on a lot of things. At the same time, I respect and appreciate what he has done for the FOSS world. I suspect that, without him, we wouldn't have as much "Free Software" as we do now.
I'm not so out-of-touch as you think. I'm well aware of how things work in the Windows-using world, and how non-techie users use computers and what they expect.
My point is that you can't have everything. You can't expect projects like GNOME or KDE to be like Windows just to satisfy potential former Windows users. No one's paying them (generally) to do so. And you seem to be holding FOSS projects to a certain standard, but allowing companies like Microsoft to violate it, just because they have more users. That's not reasonable.
> "There are more murders over there so the murders over here don't matter".
But don't you see: that's just what you're doing from the other direction. You complain about problem X on Linux, but ignore the same problem on Windows. You're being unreasonable.
> I've been using Linux now for 15 years. I've given up with it. They could fix every complaint I have tomorrow and I won't give a damn, I am done with it.
Since you seem very emotional about it, I guess it's not surprising that you're being unreasonable about it.
BTW, saw some of your comments about capitalism and Marxism. They were good. Keep speaking the truth (serious, not sarcastic).