[delinka]

"...an exclusive and default way to purchase and load apps on iOS"

If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer access to their own operating system" when that operating system represents a much smaller share of the market than the next biggest competitor.

[vatueil]

It's true that iOS has a smaller share of the market globally, including many parts of Europe, but this overshadows the fact that iOS is almost on par with Android in the United States (44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018), probably higher among affluent users, and the leading mobile operating system in other countries such as Britain: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

I feel this is often overlooked in discussions where users from certain areas where iOS is less prevalent don't understand the perspective of users from other regions where iOS is more popular.

[bilbo0s]

>(44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018)...

???

Doesn't that mean iOS has the minority market share?

[delinka]

A minority/majority distinction is unnecessary. If the market share is significant and can be shown to harm enough consumers (and especially if the behavior can be shown to harm even users of competitors' systems), then there still could be a decision in favor of consumers.

[zepto]

10% lower than the next competitor, and less than half overall.

Not a monopoly.

[jp555]

But definitely an iOS monopoly.

[scarface74]

And Nintendo, Somy, and MS have monopoles on their stores. Just like if you don’t like what one console offers you are free to buy another one, if you don’t like what’s available for iOS, you are free to buy an Android.

[tokyodude]

4 wrongs don't make right. Nintendo, Sony, and MS should also not be allowed to have monopolies on their stores.

[scarface74]

And now we are redefining “monopoly”. This has been going on for 30 years. The console manufacturers have had lock out chips on their cartridges, specially made disk, etc forever.

[jp555]

Yep! Monopoly just means there's only one supplier of any commodity. It does not mean there are no alternatives.

A patent is a government-issued monopoly.

[scarface74]

In that case you can define monopoly however you want.

You could say that YCombinator has a monopoly on posts to HN.

[jimktrains2]

> Nintendo, Somy[sic], and MS

You don't need to purchase games directly from Nintendo, nor music or games or video directly from Sony, nor are Sony Videos only playable on Sony devices, nor do you have to only install Microsoft "blessed" executable for Windows.

[dwaite]

You realize that Nintendo controls the title signing keys, their own App Store, and the physical manufacturing of cartridges right? They also require merchants to sign contracts saying they will not have a posted price below the retail sale price without approval.

I fail to see how saying you don't have to purchase "directly" from Nintendo matters.

FWIW, a similar setup to Playstation (you seem to have conflated Sony, which makes your point confusing considering that Sony has other subsidiaries that publish music and video). Playstation has a music and video store which will give you media DRM locked to your console.

Finally, Microsoft has an App Store which distributes "blessed" executables. There have been several editions of windows which only allow applications distributed through this store to run, such as the first iteration of the Microsoft Surface that ran ARM. There is speculation that this move is what prompted Valve to release their own Linux distribution, because Steam would be severely impacted if they no longer had an ability to run their own store.

Luckily for Valve, those limited distributions haven't made much headway.

[scarface74]

No, but every game that you buy that runs on any of the consoles have been preapproved by the console manufacturers and each game has been cryptographically signed by the manufacturer - even those sold on disc.

You don’t have to buy music from Apple. Music you buy hasn’t been wrapped with DRM for a decade. You can buy movies from Google, Amazon or Vudu, download the Movies Anywhere app, connect the app to your various accounts and they automatically show up as iTunes purchases (completely legally), there is an Amazon Video, Google Play, and Vudu app available for iOS. You can go to the Amazon store in your web browser and buy a digital video just like you can buy anything else from Amazon.

We are talking about consoles. Just like the other console manufacturers, you can not sell a video game on disc that has not been approved by MS and without paying MS a licensing fee to run on the XBox.

[zepto]

No. Not an iOS monopoly either. Look up the definition of monopoly.

[jp555]

Apple is the only supplier of iOS devices.

"A monopoly exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

[GeekyBear]

Didn't we already go through this in the courts when game consoles like Nintendo, XBox, and PlayStation put the same restrictions on game developers?

[MBCook]

Back in the NES era with licensing restrictions, yes. I believe it was Tengen vs Nintendo? Also Atari vs Activision?

But the Switch, PS4, and XBox One ALL have closed app stores exactly the way Apple does.

If Apple loses a lot of people will have to find a new business model.

[p1necone]

I would love game consoles to have third party stores. As it stands I almost never buy console games through the PSN store/xbox store/whatever because (at least with AAA titles) games remain at initial launch price way too long, and are usually more expensive than retail stores.

[p1necone]

Although, it isn't only limited to online console stores, some publishers are pretty terrible on PC too. As an example - in my region (New Zealand) Call of Duty Black Ops is still $99 on Steam, and that released in 2010...

(Activision, you there? I still want to buy it but I can't justify that price for an 8 year old game, or even the half off sale price right now...)

[ariwilson]

You can buy digital codes to redeem games on those stores from third party retailers. Often at a discount.

[MBCook]

Really? I think I’ve only ever seen that for Steam/GOG.

[ariwilson]

Example: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dead-Redemption-Xbox-Digital/dp/B...

[MBCook]

I’ve seen the digital codes before, but that’s actually MORE expensive than disk.

I assumed they weren’t allowed to sell at a discount

[delinka]

Honestly I don’t recall. Do you have any links I could read?

[bilbo0s]

I think he is referring to the Tengen case.

[AnthonyMouse]

> If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer access to their own operating system" when that operating system represents a much smaller share of the market than the next biggest competitor.

You're talking about two different markets, the devices themselves and the app distribution.

Suppose there are many truck manufacturers and none has majority share, but only one makes diesel trucks. Then that company gets into the market for diesel fuel and makes it so that customers can't use any other provider's fuel in their trucks. They've just leveraged their diesel truck monopoly into a diesel fuel monopoly.

Your argument is that they don't have a truck monopoly, because other people make lots of gasoline powered trucks and electric trucks etc., and truck buyers could reasonably choose them instead. Many of them do. But those aren't relevant when we're talking about the market for diesel fuel. You can't use gasoline in a diesel truck. You can't use an Android app on iOS or install iOS apps on an iPhone with Google Play.