[CosmicShadow]

I don't know why anyone would visit a country with such insane laws, it's just too dangerous. Sure they seem to have a lot of interesting stuff going on and to see, but a big fat NOPE after you read anything about their rules and how they treat people!

[frereubu]

A female friend who's a paediatrician was being courted by the Saudi government to come and start a programme there. Women's health - including pregnancy and childbirth - was dreadful because all doctors were male but they weren't allowed to touch or even view women's naked bodies. Breast cancer survival rates were horrific too, and probably still are - this was only a few years ago.

The idea was to move there with her husband, who was an anaesthiologist. Despite loving him dearly and trusting him implicitly she turned down the financially lucrative offer when she discovered that any time she wanted to leave the country she'd have to have a letter signed by him giving his permission. The risk was low but the stakes were far too high.

[justboxing]

> when she discovered that any time she wanted to leave the country she'd have to have a letter signed by him giving his permission

Does this clause apply to visitors / non-native citizens / non-muslims also? I thought it only applied to native saudi's from that Saud[1] dude's bloodline.

Not trolling, really don't know.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud

[adetrest]

I have heard a similar thing from friends who played the expat game for a few years. They lived in a compound where they could live as they wanted (within reason: no pork, no porn, etc), but the moment they stepped outside, the wives and daughters had to be chaperoned by a family male (father/husband or brother), or have written permission, wear a hijab, and be driven around by the male driver their company provided. They made a ton of money, but it seriously fucked up their kids who still resent them (the kids were teenagers at the time, that's possibly the worst time to live in such a messed up place)

[frereubu]

That's what she said to me - she may have misinterpreted. There were other aspects of life in Saudi Arabia that she didn't like, so it wasn't her only consideration, but given that she thought it was the case it was a clear deal-breaker.

[alexis_fr]

Look at Japan: 23-day police custody period. After that there’s a 99.99% confession rate. Carlos Ghosn, president of Nissan, seems to have just discovered it: He will be interrogated for 12 days. I would never go to such countries.

[Latteland]

Japan is not going to torture him, keep him up without letting him sleep are they? They have the rule of law and generally treat people well. You can't seriously compare those countries, can you?

[Cyph0n]

It’s definitely much better than KSA, but 23 days in police custody? Most people would break under the pressure alone - no torture necessary...

[jacobush]

Try Sweden... 365 days of policy custody.

[kpil]

There's no limit that I know of.

[jacobush]

No, you are correct, there's no limit.

[ap3]

It all depends on the conditions, if you have access to an attorney and are in general safe situations

I would take that than say 1 day in a mexican prison run by the drug cartel

[rurban]

What I heard about treating foreigners in Japanese police stations qualifies indeed as torture. The rule of law applies when you confess.

[dec0dedab0de]

That is the conviction rate, not the confession rate. Which has completely different connotations.

[mc32]

Indeed, the conviction rate has much to do with police picking “open and shut” cases. Which is why there are cases where murders are instead classified as accidents, if itd be hard to prove a case.

[Animats]

Mark Karpelès, the Mt. Gox guy, was arrested in Japan, interrogated, and he still got off.

[stefan_]

Pre-trial detention isn't exactly a japanese invention.

[liftbigweights]

> After that there’s a 99.99% confession rate.

That's because prosecutors in Japan and other countries generally go after "sure" cases.

Canada has a 97% conviction. US has a 93% conviction rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

> Carlos Ghosn, president of Nissan, seems to have just discovered it: He will be interrogated for 12 days. I would never go to such countries.

At least he'll get court case rather than disappearing in a japanese embassy.

Japan has its problem but it's absurd to compare it to the horrors in the middle east.

[sytelus]

I'd been to UAE and it is surprisingly lax country. In fact, if you ever want to experience culture of a country with Islam as state religion with all Western amenities, your safest bet might be UAE. They really really value their tourism and foreign investment business. Consequently they will look away most things that are outright violation of laws by foreigners. For example, their law bans sleeve less dress for women in public places but you will find Western women roaming around with it and even low shorts all over. Seeing them walking along side burka clad local women is quite a contrast. I even spotted bunch of Western women in bikini on their famous public beach while local women swimming in ocean with their burka on! No one seem to care. Few things they won't absolutely tolerate, however, is possession of drugs, public consumption of alcohol and anything against their royal family.

In current case, it seems journalists are keeping most details under the wraps. Only thing I can get is that the guy was doing some kind of study on security changes that occurred after Arab spring. He should have known that the topic of rebellion would be big hot potato in any monarchy and the country-wide security study adds lot of fire on the top. The right way to do this would be take permission from the local government, inform them things you will be collecting and make sure embassy works with you on this. There is no information on whether this happened.

Finally, why should any one visit such countries? World is not perfect but is wonderful. Human rights and individual freedom are relatively new things and just 300 years ago doing some study like this even in Western country would have same predicament. It is still important to experience and understand different cultures, points of views and communicate yours to others. That is the essence of travelling the world.

[auxbuss]

I'd add Oman as a terrific Islamic country to visit. Men and women work alongside each other. Women walk and congregate after dark without male chaperones. It's all quite sane and immaculately kept. Jordan is relaxed too. Lots to see and do in both countries.

[CosmicShadow]

Yeah, I'd love to visit there, but it's just too risky. Just because people are getting away with doing stuff that is against the law doesn't mean they can't just turn at a moments notice and say "NOPE" and you are suddenly in a huge pile of shit for something minor.

My "wife" of 12 years is common-law because we don't believe in marriage, I'm not going to risk our lives because they don't respect that.

I'm not saying don't travel to Islamic countries, I'm saying don't travel somewhere you can get royally fucked for something minor.

[leesec]

I wonder if any of the child immigrants currently locked up near the Mexican border would say the same thing now that they've tried to come to America.

[Kiro]

Like what? It's a very popular tourist destination. Yes, they treat immigrants bad but calling it dangerous for tourists?

[jliptzin]

Can you tell me what is so interesting to see in these countries that it’s worth potentially sacrificing your freedom or your life for what we consider minor infractions?

[twelvechairs]

> for what we consider minor infractions?

International spying in this case? I'm not sure thats a minor infraction

[jliptzin]

Not this specific case but I have read numerous times about small time things that result in decades in prison or worse in these backwards countries, a sibling has provided an example.

In this case I still don’t see what warrants a life sentence.

[Kiro]

Dubai is the fourth most popular city to visit in the world after London, Paris and Bangkok. Again, you're completely exaggerating when you say these things happen all the time. In Sweden it's a very common tourist destination and I've never heard anyone that have had problems with law enforcement or anything else. I also know Swedish people who have lived and worked there for extended period of times.

[Kiro]

Skyscrapers. But seriously, it sounds like you talk about going to Syria. It's one of the most popular tourist destinations so I think you're exaggerating the danger here.

[Oras]

Like this may be? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british...