[dis-sys]

> it matters what the Chinese government is like

that is just a cheap excuse repeatedly used in almost all high tech areas -

1. because the Chinese government is bad, China is not allowed to join projects like the international space station.

2. because the Chinese government is bad, allowing China to have access to any semiconductor techs from the west is not acceptable.

3. because the Chinese government is bad, exporting nuclear power station tech to China is now banned.

4. because the Chinese government is bad, Huawei's phones are banned, ZTE was not allowed to buy any US made parts.

5. because the Chinese government is bad, Alipay's acquisition of MoneyGram was banned.

6. because the Chinese government is bad, Chinese universities working on China's weapon programs are banned from buying DELL desktop computers.

when US banned exporting any high tech product to China, what to do when there is a trade imbalance? get Trump into the whitehouse, cry hard for the unfairness in trade!

give me a break, please come back with some better excuses.

[dang]

We've asked you before not to do nationalistic flamewar on HN, but you've kept doing it, as well as repeatedly becoming uncivil. If you continue to comment like this we're going to ban you. I'm not banning you for this comment because at least it contains factual information, but if the pattern continues, that's what will happen.

If the rest of the internet is going up in flames about this, that's more reason, not less, to take better care of HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[ng12]

I'm not sure what your contention is. Do you not believe the Chinese government to be corrupt, authoritarian, and/or oppressive?

I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that free societies should not economically support oppressive ones.

[dang]

Please don't do nationalistic flamewar on Hacker News. This comment takes the thread a major step further into hell.

[TeMPOraL]

> I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that free societies should not economically support oppressive ones.

That is a great idea. Except it's not really what's at play here. If it were, then the US would ban all imports from China, and not just ones where it feels it needs to maintain a strategic advantage. It would also stop supporting Saudis.

I believe what GP is trying to communicate is that US struggle against Chinese government for maintaining top superpower status, thinly veiled as concern for human rights, is unnecessarily hurting Chinese people.

[yourbandsucks]

Compared to whom?

We imprison more of our own people than them and we wage war all over the world, but people don't see it in their daily life so it's just background noise.

Maybe the basis should be cooperation and understanding rather than demonization and fear.

[echevil]

> Do you not believe the Chinese government to be corrupt, authoritarian, and/or oppressive?

I believe it's way too harmful to simply categorize government into "free" vs "bad/corrupt/authoritarian/oppressive". There're a large number of other factors to consider. I agree Chinese government has tons of problems, just like US government has tons of problems of its own, just different.

At the bottom line, Chinese government is making tons of efforts to improve the economy of the country and improve the life of all the citizens. "According to the World Bank, more than 500 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty as China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 6.5 percent in 2012, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity terms."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China

> Do you not believe the Chinese government to be corrupt, authoritarian, and/or oppressive?

I agree there're corruption in Chinese government. Anti-corruption is a one of the main focus of Chinese government in the past few years. Moreover, corruption has nothing to do with 'freedom' vs 'non-freedom'. There are way too many heavily corrupted democratic government in the world.

Is it authoritarian? Yes there is only one party in power - the CPC. The party has close to 100 million members throughout the country, which is close to 1/10 of the entire population. You can't possibly consider a party like that to be a single entity. There's also semi-democratic process: People elect representatives and they form National People's Congress - highest organ of state power in China.

Is it oppressive? Well, media censorship is a thing, and if you had to go on the street and protest the government in the same way you'd protest Trump, the government might invite you to "have a talk". But people still talk shit about the government all the time in private and on social media. The comments are likely to get deleted / banned. That sucks, but it is not something that could hugely impact the quality of life of regular citizens. You can still hear lots of dissident voices on the internet, and the government would often respond to that in positive ways.

[ng12]

You're not wrong, the Chinese government works well for you if you're Han Chinese living near an urban area who doesn't have any problematic political leanings. The problem is the world is the world is not made solely of such people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/06/world/asia/china-detentio...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2018/10/16/organ-h...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/13/world/asia/liu-xiaobo-dea...

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/beijing-encroachment-hong-kong-fre...

If you believe China lifting people out of poverty excuses a laundry-list of human rights abuses we'll have to agree to disagree.

[echevil]

Interestingly I just replied to someone else asking about minorities groups in China, you can find it just by searching for my handle. Long story short: It's fine to live in China as a minority group.

I've also expressed my opinion about some other issues like Xinjiang in another thread if you're interested:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439175

I'm not saying there aren't tons of problems with Chinese government. But from the point of view of a Chinese citizen, the human right issues are mostly excuses that western media use to attack Chinese government; a lots of those are false claims; and even for the parts that'd be truth, it impacts very few amount of people and it's generally not a big concern for vast majority of people living in China no matter Han or not (Not saying violating human right is fine but the issue has much lower priority for most people)

[ng12]

> it impacts very few amount of people

To avoid continuing a flamewar we can just agree to disagree. Yes, Uighurs, Tibetians, and Falun Gong practitioners are minorities. The fact that they are minorities does not affect how I feel about the way they are treated.

[echevil]

There're tons of Uighurs, Tibetians living in peace in China. Plenty of them also live in the east part of China, and plenty of Han people live in Xinjiang and Tibet as well. Falun Gong is banned, yeah, and most Chinese would support that. The government has nothing against minority groups, but it would take actions if: they become a threat to public safety; they become extremists and possibly engage in terrorism, no matter which ethnic group they are; they try to separate part of China out of the country (that's a red line for the government); they attempt to overthrown the government (yeah that's another red line). I wouldn't say there're no wrong-doings when the government take actions, but it's certainly not a concern for most Chinese citizens.