[apostacy]

It is sickening that there are people from less developed countries that are so desperate that they will work in conditions that our citizens would otherwise find intolerable. You think this is a good thing??

We should be paying our own citizens enough money to pick fruit for us, and pass the cost along to the consumer. So what if an apple costs three times as much? We can afford it. And we wouldn't be selling our souls.

Besides, there will probably be robots doing these kinds of jobs in the next decade anyway. The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits. Seriously. How did you get conned into thinking this was a good idea?

[bodas]

You're being absurd. It's picking fruit, not working in a sweatshop. People from other countries want to do it. Who are you to tell them that they can't?

As long as the immigrant workers have the same rights and working standards as any other worker, what is the problem exactly?

> The strife caused by importing a large population of people who have nothing in common with the existing population is NOT worth cheap fruits.

Fuck off with this nativist bullshit. I am a proud citizen of London, one of the most diverse cities in the world. I love that every time I take a train I can hear someone speaking a different language. I am willing to burn this HN account to say: Fuck your ideology.

My grandparents came to Britain to escape such persecution, people who also talked about the "strife" caused by their existence. I do not come to HN to hear the same thing repeated back to me.

[apostacy]

> You're being absurd. It's picking fruit, not working in a sweatshop. People from other countries want to do it. Who are you to tell them that they can't? > As long as the immigrant workers have the same rights and working standards as any other worker, what is the problem exactly?

Do you really think that ANYONE likes working these jobs? People are desperate enough to be willing to do them.

What you say are the same excuses that sharecroppers used to justify their exploitation. Yes, of course the coal miners "love" working here and spending all of their money at the company store.

Nobody in a developed country should be making so little money, it is bad for our society in many ways. It discourages literacy and social mobility, and incubates poverty.

> Fuck off with this nativist bullshit. I am a proud citizen of London, one of the most diverse cities in the world. I love that every time I take a train I can hear someone speaking a different language. I am willing to burn this HN account to say: Fuck your ideology.

We in New York, unlike London, have not laid down and surrendered to violence and terror. No, regular terror attacks are not "part and parcel" of living in a big city, despite the excuses of your incompetent mayor. Somehow mega cities like Tokyo and Beijing manage to have 0 terror attacks and beheadings. What is the variable between safe and unsafe cities?

> My grandparents came to Britain to escape such persecution, people who also talked about the "strife" caused by their existence. I do not come to HN to hear the same thing repeated back to me.

Did your grandparents come from a diverse country as well? If diversity is so wonderful, then why did they leave? How has diversity worked out for India/Pakistan? Have they overcome their differences yet? Seriously, how many centuries before the British even arrived was there already ongoing conflict there?

Why do you support transforming England into a place more like Pakistan if Pakistan is a place people do not want to live? Why?

And not all immigration is bad. Being against mass migration does not make you some kind of nativist monster.

I don't mean for you to feel attacked. I know that other people who criticize immigration policy might be hateful, but I am not.

[canhascodez]

You're deliberately ignoring the argument you're responding to.

> As long as the immigrant workers have the same rights and working standards as any other worker, what is the problem exactly?

No one is transforming England into Pakistan. That is a false characterization.

[apostacy]

> No one is transforming England into Pakistan. That is a false characterization.

London now has acid attacks almost twice a day now [1]. This NEVER used to happen anywhere in Europe, only Pakistan and some other Muslim countries. Why is this happening now?

So yes, in terms of crimes like acid attacks, London is becoming more Pakistan-like.

London is also turning into the Pakistan of homophobia, antisemitism, sexual assault, and street harassment.

It is foolish to think you can import that many people without also importing their cultural values. And we like to tell ourselves that we will only get the things we like, and nothing we don't.

I am not attacking people who are immigrants. Most of them left because they wanted to escape these things. But if we pretend that these problems don't exist, then we have no hope of addressing them.

[1]: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/26/europe/london-acid-attacks-20...

[canhascodez]

Yes, all of these problems are 100% caused by immigrants, and no native-born person has ever been guilty of them. No, you're not attacking immigrants. I completely believe your rationalizations.