[Alex63]

Some interesting things in this article. Given what appear to be changing attitudes to men ("long America’s economically privileged gender"), is this situation really surprising? When one considers diversity and inclusion goals, hiring more men seems like a lower priority.

I was also amused by the comment, “I’m very quick to get frustrated when people refuse to pay me what I’m worth.” This seems like a conversation I have at least once a quarter with someone. You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth.

[Nasrudith]

The market is a two way street. If they refuse to pay enough to satisfy them to consider working then they won't get their labor in return.

They may well be able to do without but the supply will adjust accordingly. Look at mining boom towns and their crazy inflation - one could say line cooks aren't worth $35/hr but if they can get a $50/hr mining job the local market will be in a perpetual shortage because they refuse to "overpay".

[lazerpants]

You're worth the point on a graph where the line illustrating what the market is willing to offer you intersects with what you're willing to take.

If you think of the housing market as a rough example, a house may have been "worth" 500k in 2006, 350k in 2010, and 525k in 2018, but unless you sold it, the "worth" didn't matter. Likewise, the individuals you are describing are choosing to hold themselves off of the labor market due to the opportunity costs of selling their labor at a cost they consider to be below value. No idea if they're wrong or right about getting a better deal by waiting, but your worth is not market dictated until you accept employment somewhere.

[ehrtt]

> You're worth what the market is willing to offer you, not what you think you are worth.

This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

[geezerjay]

> This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system.

The word "market" is just a convenient tag to refer to a collection of individuals like you and me looking to buy/sell goods and/or services, and deciding what's best for them given the choices available, their priorities, and the information they have.

Thus, when anyone refers to what "the market is willing to offer", they are referring to what the individuals like you and me who are shopping for a good/service are actually willing to pay in exchange for it.

Are you willing to pay a philosophy major a 70k/year salary for him to research a topic? No? Neither is anyone else. Thus, in short, the market for philosophy research is not willing to pay for that.

[ehrtt]

Yeah, but there are two sides to that (voluntary) transaction. The person bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place. The value of the labor is subjective.

[Alex63]

Yes, and no. The value we place on our own labour is subjective, and the value that a buyer places on our labour is also subjective. You may value your labor at $100/hour, and if no one agrees to pay that price that doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that there's no market for your labour at that amount.

At the same time, we can say that there is an objective value for labour of a certain type (I'm thinking of commodified labour), which is the going market rate. Just as there is, at any given point in time, an objective value for a share of Apple Computer.

[geezerjay]

> The person bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place.

That's the whole point: "the market is willing to accept" only deals that are deemed acceptable to the two parties involves in the negotiation. It takes two to tango. Anyone is free to make outlandish offers but in order to make a deal happen it's absolutely necessary that someone willingly accepts them.

[divs1210]

In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Ever heard people claiming that The Market will fix things? Where have I heard that before?

[geezerjay]

> In a capitalistic society, The Market = God.

Enough with the puerile poetry. In a capitalist society, the market is people like you and me who like to decide for themselves what's in their own best interests.

The market fixes problems because people likeyou and me always find a balance between what they supply and demand, and what trade-offs they are willing to accept. There is no magic or witchcraft.

[divs1210]

i look around and see a world struggling with pollution and inequality. Do you have any data/studies backing your claim, or am I supposed to take it all on faith?

[geezerjay]

> i look around and see a world struggling with pollution and inequality.

Pollution is hardly a problem created by capitalism, and inequality is only a problem in the minds of those who for some reason don't stand the idea of anyone earning more tham them while not giving a damn about those who earn less.