[JshWright]

> If you crush or sever your fingers, you really do need to call an ambulance.

Paramedic here... If the bleeding is controlled, there's not really anything an ambulance is going to do other than give you an expensive ride to the hospital. Counting dispatch/response/on scene time, you'd likely get to the hospital just as quickly if someone drove you in their personal vehicle.

I'm not defending Tesla's practices here... I'm far more concerned about the other cases mentioned (workers passing out, feeling dizzy, etc).

[hef19898]

Man, am I happy to live in Europe. Because over here, your employer has an obligation to care for his employees. And that means that, yes, in those cases you have to call an ambulance. Otherwise the professional health insurance will sue the employer to death (obvious exaggeration). At least in Germany.

The stuff Tesla is doing, allegedly, is only done by really shaddy companies.

[conanbatt]

If germany had the cost of healthcare the US had, such obligation would bankrupt many german businesses.

[hef19898]

Imagine that Germany does have universal health care.

[conanbatt]

If ambulances cost in Germany what they cost in the US under a universal health care program, then they would either ration them or charge exorbitant taxes for them.

[vsl]

Overall 50% taxation sounds about right?

Yes, medical care availability and quality suffer as the consequence of the European model, and that everybody regards it as "free" (despite having been taxed through the roof) doesn't help. On balance, it's probably better than the US system, but it's not the rose garden a large chunk of HN seems to think.

[hef19898]

50% is, as very rough ballpark number, your net salary in Germany. Usually it is more than that. Not all of the other 50% is taxes so. It is social security, unemployment insurance, salary taxes and part health care (usually around 15% with your employer paying the same amout directly as well).

And nobody thinks health care is free, just universal. It might seem free as everybody is used to pay part of his salary every months but health care cost is a recurring topic over here.

Availability for emergencies, and ambulances are for emergencies, is by no means bad. There are medevac helicopters placed in a way to minimize response times. And they are covered by your basic insurance.

Availability can be an issue compared to private insurance due to budget constraints in the public model and the fact that doctors and hospitals have to live. Again, emergency services don't suffer from that. Could overall availability be better? Yes. Is availability overall satisfactory? I would say yes as well (point in case, general doctors in the countryside, there are not enough of those for a variety of reasons).

[adrianN]

Yeah unless there is a traffic jam on the way, then you're fucked in your Uber.

[toomuchtodo]

This is a good point, with the caveat that it's roughly 5 miles to two hospitals north of the Fremont factory. If traffic is terrible, an ambulance should be called; otherwise, a Lyft vs ambulance will make no difference.

[JshWright]

An ambulance isn't going to make much difference in gridlocked traffic anyway. They're not going to use the lights and sirens for a stable patient.

[Retric]

Crushing injuries can result in life threatening issues even if someone appears stable. Clot or hemorrhage can go from everything looking ok to serious very quickly.

Ambulances are low risk and cheap somthey really should be used even down to ~0.1% chances of serious issues.

[JshWright]

I am a paramedic. If someone with a crushing injury to their hand is otherwise stable, I am not going to be headed to the hospital with the lights and sirens on.

If the injury is higher (with the potential for compartment syndrome distal to the injury site, or closer to major blood vessels), then sure, I may be in a bit more of a hurry (a "bit" being the operative word there... slow is smooth, smooth is fast).

[Retric]

I don't disagree with that, but is otherwise stable can change. With an Uber their is no recourse if the person in the back starts having a heart attack for example.

[toomuchtodo]

I appreciate you taking the time to provide context and insight here. Even having taken a wilderness EMT course, I still learned something from your comments. Thank you!