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by djsumdog 2789 days ago
> #HimToo

I haven't heard of this specifically, but the #MeToo movement bothers me greatly, because it implies that we suddenly learned you needed consent for sex; like it was some new revelation.

If you look at CDC numbers, just as many men are assaulted sexually as women, but yet the #MeToo movement felt very one directional and didn't talk about assault inclusively of all people.

The #BelieveWomen campaign actually goes directly against one of the principal tenants of progressive ideology: Innocent until proven guilty (a tenant of #BlackLivesMatter).

The point is these issues are COMPLEX! They are not simple. And when they're not simple, you need to be able to discuss them openly, and frankly. Deplatforming totally fucks that up. People who have never been on to Gab assume it's all hate speech and right-wring religious stuff (I mean .. it is .. or was, but most people didn't actually see it for themselves...they just heard about it and hated).

A good counter example: the documentary The Red Pill, where a feminist interviews several people in the Men's Rights movement and learns it was nothing like how it was portrayed as. She had an entirely incorrect view of what they themselves stood for because of all those people yelling at their platform.

De-platforming increases polarization. I know it's a meme, but we do live in a society. We need to be able to discuss our differences and find a synthesis between the thesis/anthesis to move forward in a way that's as fair as we can be to everyone.

When you push people off platforms, there is no longer speech and discussion. There is only "for us or against us." If you are a feminist in every way, but think trans-women should still be men on their birth certificates, then suddenly you're an anti-Trans, TERF, Fascist, Nazi and nothing you said should be listened to because you're wrong.

That's the direction we're heading, and that is sad and terrible. Most humans do act in good faith, and are reasonable, and we need to learn to listen again.

2 comments

Did you read much about the production of that documentary, or any of the reviews? It is not well-regarded, its creator isn't a journalist, and it was funded (on Kickstarter) in large part by MRA activists.

From the Village Voice review (which is not charitable), and remember the context that her doc opens with an exploration of "rape culture":

I feel comfortable calling her “propagandist” because of my own “research” (ie. “reading the top search results”). Here’s something Elam wrote on A Voice for Men in 2010: “Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.” What excuse would any serious documentarian have for not asking Elam to explain that?

> I haven't heard of this specifically, but the #MeToo movement bothers me greatly, because it implies that we suddenly learned you needed consent for sex; like it was some new revelation

it's true though; it's largely in response to somebody bragging about not getting consent being elected to the highest office of the US.

Without it, Hollywood would still be thinking sexual assault is just the norm, and women have to accept it if they want to move their carear forward

> response to somebody bragging about not getting consent being elected to the highest office of the US.

Wait, when did Trump ever brag about not getting consent? If this is the famous "grab her by the pussy" video, you should really watch the whole thing. He talked about how usually rich men can get women without any work, but this one particular woman wouldn't take his advances, and how he didn't have sex with her.

I don't like Trump at all (I didn't like Hillary either; they're both psychos), but I hate how this clips was taken out of context.