[eeks]

The IBM ranks are inaccurate. Fellows are not above DEs. Both are the highest ranks indeed, but of two different tracks. DE is the highest rank of the engineering track, while Fellow is the highest rank of the research track. Fellowship have also be granted to non-research people over the past 20 years, diluting the merit of the title IMHO. Examples of fellows are: John Backus, Gene Amdahl, Ken Iverson, Benoit Mandelbrot, etc.

Both levels may reside in different pay bands, but they are both at the executive level. And DEs cannot become fellows, and vice versa (some exceptions to the rule may have existed).

[tytso]

I was at the IBM LTC from 2001--2009 as an STSM, and my understanding was that DE's could absolutely get promoted to Fellows. So assuming that Fellows are "just" the highest rank of the research rank is not really accurate. Perhaps that's what you mean by "diluting the merit of the title", but that sounds like you're coming from the Research side of IBM. :-)

Yes, it's rare for a DE to get promoted to be a Fellow, but that's because there are very few Fellows at IBM. And there's no reason why a Fellow would want to become a DE, since that would mean taking a pay cut. (See below)

From a salary band perspective, STSM is actually the highest rank of the engineering track (aka Band 10). A DE is paid on the bottom rung of the executive track (Band D), while a Fellow is paid as an Executive Band C. Which means a Fellow may be the highest rank of the "research track" but a Fellow is still going to rank below an SVP or GM from a salary perspective. :-)

[eeks]

You may be right about the DE -> Fellow promotion, although I only heard of it once, and that person was pretty spectacular. The Fellow -> DE path is unheard of. As is the RSM -> DE. All the DEs I know came from SWG and were STSM.

Re: my “dilution” comment, i was not thinking about DEs. I was thinking about non-technical people (management, law, accounting, ...) that have been creeping up the Fellowship lately. Also the bluewashed executive that were given a fellowship package to seeeten the pot.

[tytso]

Well I had the privilege of working with Paul McKenney who invented (and patented) Read-Copy-Update (RCU). He came to IBM as part of the Sequent acquisition, and was part of the Linux Technology Center, which was in the Systems and Technology group.

If you take a look at some of IBM's press releases, you'll see there are plenty of Fellows that come from the SWG and STG, and not just Research. For example:

https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/7142.wss

[ajdlinux]

While this might be technically true, my impression has always been that Fellows are still viewed as above DEs, and paid more, and there are absolutely Fellows working on the engineering side of the business.

[Zaheer]

Thanks for the correction! We'll update this soon.