[Hei1Fuya]

As long as we don't have UBI there's a need for a job to feed yourself.

[adventured]

Every nice welfare state has a lot of unemployed people.

France has a permanent unemployed class, with perpetually high unemployment as a result of their labor laws and generous welfare state. Those people are not starving to death.

Clearly UBI is in fact not necessary at all, so say the best countries in the world, from Denmark to Canada.

[toweringgoat]

Germany? Switzerland? Both are welfare states (even if not as extreme as some places), and have low unemployment.

[Hei1Fuya]

German unemployment benefits are conditional on showing evidence that you're seeking jobs. So it's still founded on the assumption that everyone able should be working.

[ambicapter]

Are you saying that non-welfare states never have a permanent unemployed class? Or (non-exclusive or) that they have fewer unemployed, on average?