[ackidacki]

Europe's most successful countries are the ones with their own currencies. It's easy to compare the differences in growth and debt with those in and out of the EZ. Ireland is the only true exception & it's for reasons relating to its tax policies.

[twblalock]

What's your standard of success? Germany has the largest GDP in Europe by about a trillion dollars and uses the Euro.

[ackidacki]

GDP growth, consumption growth, manageability of debt, standard of life, employment rate. The central question being not "how big is it because of the euro" but "is it better because of the euro"

Germany and Benelux are high but problematic in areas of consumption. 41% of the German Economy is export orientated (meaning consumption is extremely low) and while employment rates are high, employment isn't completely 'full time', wages lag productivity significantly (pay is relatively bad) and debts in the private sector are heavily problematic. Not to mention Germany's population demographics don't have a bright future.

Contrast this to economies with their own currencies - the UK, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Denmark - which aren't dogged down by such problems. Sweden had a housing crash last year and is managing just fine despite it.

If the EZ had another crash it would be debatable whether it can still hold strong - a point reinforced by France's Finance Minister himself.

[NicoJuicy]

What do you mean, problematic on areas of consumption? ( From BE, fyi )

[ackidacki]

In simple terms most of Benelux & German GDP doesn't make its way into citizens pockets, as a result pay is relatively poor and has an impact on the standard of living. This is a result of official policy (Tarifeinheitsgesetz) meant to make labour more competitive.

If you look up GDP it is pretty big, but if you look up wages you will find its relatively bad.

[NicoJuicy]

? They were some stronger countries that wanted to play by their own rules. It's always like that unfortunately

But don't over exaggerate, we are just about to see the story when one tries to play on their own without the EU. I think it's going to be the first true example of "what happens"

[ackidacki]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the UK. While this is bad for them i'm speaking of countries in the EU but not in the EZ that have far better metrics across the board inc Sweden, Norway, Denmark & Poland. If you take a 30 year period and compare them to Europe's best (Germany) you can see drastic improvements in them relatively.

It's very distracting to keep looking at the UK and Brexit and forget that others on the continent clearly do better without the Euro. There are still countries in the Eu with EZ opt outs.

I'd also like to point out Switzerland is not in the Euro and not in the EU and its metrics are far better on everything - although it is in Schengen.