[dorfsmay]

In a lot of countries in Europe, it is difficult to fire somebody. The service issue is cultural, in two ways in fact:

  - in Europe a waiter constantly asking how it's going, is the food good, etc.. is considered intrusive, not "good service".

  - waiters not putting huge effort in cheaper restaurants is because, hey why would they when they're not making much more than minimal wage, and because every restaurant in that price range is doing the same.

So, if people cared, and a few restaurants started to offer "better service", people would vote with their feet, and all restaurants would adapt.

> if the only reason it's better is because of the tips then how do we get good service without them?

You tell us! Are you a a software developer?

Are you paid by the FP? Are you paid by the rate of bug/FP? Is the amount you are paid per metrics unilaterally decided by your employer with no way for you to negotiate?

If not, do you produce quality code? How does your employer get you to do a good job without paying you a random amount that they decide, after the fact, with no room for negociation?

[codyb]

I mean, I've seen plenty of software engineers with guaranteed incomes settle into their jobs and slack off so I'm not sure it's a great comparison really if proving your point is what you want to do.

[dorfsmay]

> I've seen plenty of software engineers with guaranteed incomes settle into their jobs and slack off

Make everybody a contractor! Let employers vote with their wallet. You slack off, you don't get renewed. I've been a contractor for more than 25 years, plenty of happy customers, plenty of renewals. Legally, my customers don't need to pay me if they can argue I did not deliver what was asked.

But, we negotiate and agree, beforehand, what the work and what the compensation is. I would never work without knowing what the compensation is ahead of time. WOULD YOU?