[meguest]

Spain and Italy currently have weakened economies caused by large unemployment and government debt.

Italy in particular is at risk of defaulting on its debts (which are 131% of GDP compared to 87.7% for the U.K and 64.1% in Germany as of 2017) and the ECB and other lenders are going to be reluctant to lend to them. This is turn puts the banks and all kinds of public services at risk.

[hummel]

Wrong. Weak economics, low employment, and large government debt (US anyone?) are not relevant when you bring talents, Quality of life is, and Spain or Italy are high above the mentioned countries. Also is much more cost-effective and secure. Ask yourself why many Europeans choose to retire to Spain.

But I do agree, we export talent to anywhere, where Spanish professionals, executives or researchers lead the way on many fields.

[hueving]

>and large government debt (US anyone?)

The comparison to the US is not apt because the US has control over its own currency. This is critical for high debt scenarios because it leaves the option of essentially printing money via a program like quantitative easing to always ensure interest rates on fed bonds don't get out of control. This serves the purpose of providing favorable rates for the government as well as inflating away the value of the outstanding debt.

Countries bound to the Euro do not have this option so it usually means growth-killing austerity+taxes is the only way out.

[slededit]

Canada solves this among its provinces with equalization payments. Unless you want economic deadzones its the only way to solve the problem.

[CapacitorSet]

>low employment [is] not relevant when you bring talents

While I agree with the rest, I wouldn't be too sure about this. I suppose a tech talent doesn't plan on working at the same place their whole lives, so they would take into consideration the availability of tech jobs in the area.

[doombolt]

I don't understand why it will be harder to attract software developers to Italy versus Poland. Weather and environment are much nicer and if this job ends you just move elsewhere.

I would easily move to a cheap locale even if tech scene there is not abundant. I'd not move to London or Switzerland since you will always be 2nd class citizen compared to e.g. bankers. Which is just non issue in southern europe.

Weak economic is a thing you leverage.

[meguest]

The Italian government are in a debt crisis not too different from the Greek government debt crisis of 2007/2008.

Italy currently has a slow growing economy and needs a large number of younger economic migrants to increase Italy's competitiveness and pay taxes.

[erik_seaberg]

> would easily move to a cheap locale even if tech scene there is not abundant

I wouldn't. Being in high demand in Silicon Valley is amazing even compared to Seattle. I wouldn't move to a backwater for fear of having to move again every 3-5 years.

[travelbuffoon]

> 2nd class citizen

Huh?

Also, those places are way more international than most places in Europe, which makes relocation more attractive. Good luck attracting non-Italians to Italy, or non-Polish to Poland.

[alkonaut]

I (as a neither Polish or Italian person) wouldn't mind moving to either, but given the current political climate in Poland I'd rather move to Italy tbh.

[doombolt]

Is not it obvious? When you tell you do software in Perugia you sound important, when you tell the same in London you basically say you're a nobody.

I would gladly move to Italy with its amazing culture. I would not move to a place so diverse and full of recent immigrants that it no longer has any specific culture. Am I unique here?

And yes, people relocate to Poland a lot, from ex-USSR countries for example.

[pjc50]

You don't want to immigrate to London because there are too many immigrants?

[doombolt]

Yep! It's so crowded, nobody goes there anymore.

[travelbuffoon]

Needing that kind of recognition seems unhealthy.

I'm pretty sure both London and Switzerland have cultures (OK, UK culture is mostly just drinking but still...).

Large software hubs generally need to pull in people from around the world, not just USSR. And that's the crux of the problem. London, Berlin, Paris, Zurich are all major international cities - it's easier for people from all around the world to settle down there than in places like Warsaw or Perugia.

[fjsolwmv]

Do people move to Poland, or do employers hire local underemployed (and Soviet era educated) talent?

[LeonidasXIV]

> hire local underemployed (and Soviet era educated) talent

You are aware that the Soviet era is long ago and the youngest people educated under a Soviet system are mid-30 by now? There is plenty of universities in Poland teaching among other things also Computer Science.

[jxub]

Well, to be honest both jobs and salaries are booming there right now.