[boubiyeah]

React was never a view-only library.

Pete Hunt always said he saw React components as mini MVC modules.

it's even less true nowadays with features like Context or suspense to supplement the component states. Redux was kind of a temporary hack.

[sdegutis]

I distinctly remember the phrase "V in MVC" being prominently displayed somewhere on the official React website(s).

Found it: https://web.archive.org/web/20140329114924/http://facebook.g...

> JUST THE UI

> Lots of people use React as the V in MVC. Since React makes no assumptions about the rest of your technology stack, it's easy to try it out on a small feature in an existing project.

So I was mistaken. It didn't say that's what it's only intended for, but that's what many people use it for.

Either way, it's not great at the M or C parts of MVC. Context does very little to ease that pain. Redux was more manageable but also overly complex, but it's only React's design that forced it to be so complex.

[boubiyeah]

But managing state is quite hard in general. Angular proudly advertises it solves all problems you can have on the frontend but I would take react state + utils over angular's magic templates, rxjs and bindings any day.

[sdegutis]

Right, and that's what I'm recommending we in general try to innovate on: better state management than React, but with the ease of writing view components that React has showed works well. Since the view is hierarchical, it makes sense for components to inherently also be hierarchical, but business logic often doesn't match up to React's component hierarchy, so it should not be done inside React or tied to React's hierarchy.

[jf-]

Out of curiosity, have you actually tried the latest version of Angular to see if your preference does hold up? It’s come quite a way since the bad old days.

[tracker1]

I can't speak for GP, but have used angular up through 4.x (not quite current) and don't find it better than React's ecosystem imho.

With React I can often bring in additional components and libraries without friction. With Angular it feels like doing anything means significant friction. And heaven help you if you want to change the way something internal works, or work around things.

[jf-]

I can’t say I’ve had that much trouble bringing in third party libraries, nor have I had a need to change how the framework works internally. I think this is the same as with most frameworks, you tend to just use them rather than doing stuff under the hood. Can you give an example?

[tracker1]

At this point not really... it's been over a year since I've had to really worry about it. It was better using angular-redux or ngrx, but still was a weird experience. When you have eventing issues with RXJS, or handling integration with other libraries, it's definitely not as broad or mature as the React space is. Anything from chartjs to color pickers, I'm trying to recall the last big issue I had in an angular app. In the end, I just remember pain all along the way more than most specific examples.

Oh yeah... drag-drop integration... that was the single biggest pain. None of the component libraries worked well, and doing it manually was harder than I've experienced before, including just straight JS, and definitely worse as a whole than using say jQuery-UI.

If it were a year or more ago, I could cite better examples of pain points. 2+ is better than 1.x, but still horrible. I'd rather see people adopt Vue over Angular. I still prefer a react-alike over any of them.