[ergothus]

I can see both sides. I teach React to newish coders, and classes are easy for them to grasp...and then immediately create labyrinthine monoliths. At work where I do React, we emphasize small components with limited and segmented logic (ideally pulling as much logic out of the React parts as possible - and this is most easily done by avoiding classes).

At the same time, I've a passion for trying to make code more maintainable - which often means avoiding too much abstraction and keeping logic plain and up-front, where it can be found and followed, so I share some of your concerns.

But I'm excited about this. One of the best parts of React has been that the same logic that makes a good program makes for a good react app. Treat your components like functions (regardless of whether they are classes or not) - small, single purpose, decoupled from state - and you'll have an easier time. Hooks look to help that.

[munchbunny]

I can see both sides. I teach React to newish coders, and classes are easy for them to grasp...and then immediately create labyrinthine monoliths.

To be fair, that's pretty much what happens to all newish coders who are learning classes. Learning to use classes responsibly is really just part of the learning, though that seems to be the part that instructors pawn off to the next guy.

Once you learn how to use them judiciously, classes become extremely useful tools for encapsulation/abstraction where you need encapsulation/abstraction.

[xab9]

Maybe newish coders should learn the language they are using.

And of course there is typescript (and a gazillion of languages that can be transpiled to js these days), which synergizes very well with enterprise people and java/dotnet devs who never did a line of frontend before.

[munchbunny]

Maybe newish coders should learn the language they are using.

It's not a language thing. OOP discipline is a coding thing in general.

And of course there is typescript (and a gazillion of languages that can be transpiled to js these days), which synergizes very well with enterprise people and java/dotnet devs who never did a line of frontend before.

You sound like you don't actually understand why people like Typescript, or, more specifically, static typing.

[jnbiche]

> You sound like you don't actually understand why people like Typescript, or, more specifically, static typing.

Eh, in my experience, there are two types of Typescript users: 1) those users who appreciate the safety that type systems provide when used properly, and 2) those enterprise users of the language who have mostly only coded Java and C# and who like Typescript because it lets them write Java-style code for the browser.

[tangent128]

Typescript doesn't do anything ES6 & Webpack don't already do; Javascript already lets you write Java-style code if you really want to.

[jnbiche]

Typescript significantly predates ES6 and Webpack. Java developers have been drawn to Typescript for over 5 years now.

[xab9]

I know, but lately during frontend interviews I was surprised how many times I met with "I'm a developer I can do anything" type interviewers - some of them were dotnet, others were java devs and they preferred typescript, because 1. javascript is a terrible language 2. with typescript they feel right at home 3. they can use a "proper ide" (please, don't ask, I already had an argument and a rejection when I tried to ask about webstorm)

[xab9]

I "don't actually understand why people like Typescript", or lemonade, or skiing, or eating fish. I know why I like it, including static typing, and how I can find a balance with using its features (and not using some).

On the other hand I'm not trying to hide that I'm bitter about the mental lazyness around typescript - I had some bad experience with interviewers who praised ts (without ever bothering to learn the core principles of javascript) a bit too much for my taste (but again, this may just be dismissed as anecdotal evidence, which it is).

[engineeringwoke]

You wish we went back to bind and apply? And not being able to trace logic, state, and DOM through a labyrinth of Backbone views? We have come so far

How is static typing "mental laziness"?

[xab9]

The article says bind as a negative point - I perefer the new non-bound class method syntax:

``` private handleClick = (event) => {} ```

By "mental lazyness" I mean that people (as in people I have met with) piss on javascript and praise typescript and in the process they never bother to learn about javascript.

I do like vue, react, angular of course, but I don't think that you become a frontend developer from one day to the next and keep saying that typescript is _exactly_ like java (or dotnet).