[rdtsc]

> bernie sanders calling open borders a "Koch brother" conspiracy.

Quite right. It wasn't just that Bernie disagrees with open borders, in that video he is visibly upset. He really doesn't like it.

(It was the Vox interview I assume, unless you saw another one)

Also if you are old enough you might remember large anti-globalization protests around G8, Bilderberg and other such meetings.

It is kind of baffling how just a decade ago left groups were getting teargassed fighting globalization and now they are openly advocating it.

Such is the power of propaganda. It is extremely effective and could turn pink into blue, and then yellow with some moderate effort.

I suggest everyone read Chomsky and Herman's Manufacturing Consent. It was actual when it was written and just as actual even if not more today.

Speaking of Chomsky, find his writings on NAFTA and globalization as well. It might also surprise you what he has to say.

[toiletfuneral]

I'm pretty sure the people getting tear gassed over globalization at the G8 were against capital leveraging international workers to destroy domestic labor power and the ones getting tear gassed recently are fighting against policies targeting immigrant and refugee communities. It seems pretty consistent to want to protect workers and also fight xenophobia.

[joshuamorton]

There's a wide variety of positions between "open borders" and "forcibly take refugee children away from their families and put both in detention facilities".

One can object to the latter without supporting the former.

[sheepmullet]

In theory - in practice though we have had decades of weak borders.

[joshuamorton]

Weak borders are still not open borders, and I again ask that you not conflate the two.

[exabrial]

Please name a crime where you are allowed to take your children with you when you're arrested.

[xnyan]

Please name a misdemeanor crime that results in loss of custody of your dependent children on the first offense.

[fzeroracer]

I'm pretty sure we don't permanently separate families for doing things like petty theft.

There's also the the 'Affluenza' case where a teenager killed four people and got off scott-free. Well, until he was found fleeing probation in a foreign country and was dragged back here.

So I don't know: Do you think crossing the border is worse than murder?

[nilkn]

The affluenza comparison feels like a "whataboutism" to me. Virtually nobody holds that case up as an example of the system working in a healthy and desirable way.

[fzeroracer]

No. It's not. The comment I directly replied to was asking for a crime where you can take your children with you when you're arrested.

We've already established the fact the system is massively stacked against minorities. Then we continue to use 'but it's a crime!' as justification for vile and malicious behavior to people that have committed something without an actual victim like smoking marijuana or crossing the border.

And again, we do not permanently separate families in every single case where someone commits misdemeanor. So then why is it OK to permanently separate all immigrants who cross the border despite it being the same level of crime? Give me one reason outside of 'racism and xenophobia.'

[nilkn]

I'm only commenting on your affluenza comparison specifically.

Here's an example of why I think the comparison is meaningless. Grand theft can be charged as a misdemeanor with up to a two year jail sentence. But Brock Turner was sentenced to only six months of jail time for rape. Do you think grand theft is worse than rape? Of course not, but the problem here is the Brock Turner sentence, not the sentencing for grand theft. This question could only be posed because, by design, I selected a more serious crime (rape) for which there exists at least one case where an inappropriately lenient sentence was given out.

You did the same. By design, you selected a more serious crime (murder) for which there exists at least one case where an inappropriately lenient sentence was given out. You then used this highly dysfunctional example to draw a comparison to the less serious crime. But the simplest response to your question comparing crossing the border and murder is simply that the affluenza sentencing was wrong.

[joshuamorton]

Requesting asylum is not a crime, so I'm confused by this request.

[exabrial]

I think that's more than valid. Does doing so require always crossing border illegally? Also, what percentage of people are under a legitimate threat of their lives (or relatives)?

[joshuamorton]

Why are you focusing on people who entered the country illegally? The trump admin has separated families who crossed the border legally at ports of entry and then requested asylum[1].

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-right...

[nyolfen]

crossing the border illegally is

[mohammedbin]

So who is doing this? And why? I only know the top leaders of US politics and all of them pretend that they are holy and the other side is pure evil.

Funnily a child comment to you points out that "trump puts children in cage" and I followed the issue and somebody said it was an Obama era photo and they were detained by Obama because the so called parents were actually traffickers which I of course would support Obama for

[toomanybeersies]

Globalism is part of the core philosophy of neo-liberalism, which most mainline political parties were advocating up until the past couple of years when public sentiment went against globalism. Both Republicans and Democrats were in favour of the TPP, for example.

Globalism is orthogonal to leftism/rightism. Brexit support was roughly similar among both Labour and Conservative party supporters.

[kakarot]

Chomsky's Profit over People is also a fantastic read.

[mc32]

Yep, indeed. This has turned quite strikingly since the Seattle round. Democrats used to be pro-Us workers. Pro-Union. Now they forget about US workers, except to demand minimum wage increases but that does not do anything to protect well-paying union jobs which get shipped off or get undercut by illegal workers who work for less then minimum wage.

It's quite interesting to see the Trump faction take this mantle and the Democrats (and traditional Repubs) have no idea how to react except to be reactionary and be pro-Globalization pro-TPP, pro-intervention, etc.

[alexnewman]

The left was the major source of anti immigration law until they replaced xenophobic labor laws with today's political reality

[alexnewman]

Why was this so downvoted?

[anigbrowl]

They think it's political point scoring but you are substantially correct. Maybe mentioning that this shift took place in the late 80s and 90s would have helped.